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Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar

Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar

Posted Aug 21, 2012 10:18 UTC (Tue) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784)
In reply to: Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar by alankila
Parent article: Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar

It's also possible to use, say, pkg-config. Which can spit out cflags and ldflags and compilation flags without any autotools voodoo. There is no need to hardcode library paths, that is simply a strawman.

I wasn't defending autotools as such, but pointing out that the alternative in the wider world, beyond the group that the author berates and believes is responsible for the downfall of civilisation, is not another configuration tool but in fact nothing at all.

Of course there is no need to hard-code library paths, and of course you can use other tools instead, but the hard reality is that anything is a step up from the default, which is not to address deployment issues whatsoever. To say that such an observation is a "strawman" is laughable: I never claimed that there was a "need" for any such practice.

The fact is that the set of all people who can write code and the set of all people who know about software engineering practices to an acceptable degree do not fully intersect, and where they do intersect, people often choose to take an established tool instead of using another for a variety of reasons instead of making a choice purely on technical merit.


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Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar

Posted Aug 22, 2012 0:16 UTC (Wed) by alankila (subscriber, #47141) [Link]

Okay. I believe your criticism of my criticism is fair. I withdraw it -- I misunderstood. I simply found the juxtaposition you made so gross that I objected instinctively.

If I am reading this communication correctly, you are stating that autotools is in fact *the only* option "in the wider world". If that is the case, I imagine it might be time to narrow some of that wider world so that the design could still be sane while working for almost everybody...

Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar

Posted Aug 22, 2012 13:51 UTC (Wed) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]

I was just saying that the author thinks that people should just move up from autotools and use something better or write something cleaner, when in fact a lot of software developers aren't even aware of autotools or other ways of solving the problems of configuration and deployment. Indeed, they might not even be aware that those problems exist. For those developers "even" autotools is better than what they're doing.

In essence, the author is enjoying a luxury problem: he can complain about people who know what he is talking about while overlooking the hordes of software developers who hard-code everything, fire up Visual Studio, and pass round the resulting binary. It's like someone at a gentleman's club complaining about the manners of the doorman when just along the street people are swearing and fighting each other.

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