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Kamp: A Generation Lost in the BazaarKamp: A Generation Lost in the BazaarPosted Aug 20, 2012 17:52 UTC (Mon) by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205)In reply to: Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar by mjg59 Parent article: Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar
> You know that clients can already override the window manager's behaviour, right?
They can, but that's a lot of unnecessary work. App developers generally don't like making UI decisions, because they involve a lot of effort and always make half the userbase angry. But if Wayland -forces- them to make these decisions, every project will make different ones.
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Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 20, 2012 17:58 UTC (Mon) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]
"Client side decorations" doesn't mean "Every client must reimplement its own decorations".
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 20, 2012 18:35 UTC (Mon) by alankila (subscriber, #47141) [Link]
The current Wayland plan is still to force clients to do the decorations.
I favor this option personally because I believe it allows excellence in user interface design, but I also foresee a likely result which is that different classes of applications will have an entirely different look and feel also in the window decoration level.
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 20, 2012 19:03 UTC (Mon) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]
"I favor this option personally because I believe it allows excellence in user interface design"
The problem there being that 90% of developers think they're excellent at user interface design. And the people who suffer will be the users who disagree.
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 20, 2012 22:18 UTC (Mon) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
If the developer writes shitty applications they why on earth would users inflict those applications on themselves.
Drawing your own decorations is not the same as forcing users to use bad software.
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 23, 2012 17:21 UTC (Thu) by jedidiah (guest, #20319) [Link]
You're forcing a specialist to be a generalist. They are going to be bad at it because they are not generalists. Division of labor exists for a reason.
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 21, 2012 6:47 UTC (Tue) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link]
Sorry, I think you still don't get it. Client-side decoration will be in 99% provided by UI toolkit, be it GTK+ or Qt. Not by application itself (although it will be possible, just as it is possible now).
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 21, 2012 11:20 UTC (Tue) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]
I'm *really* not looking forward to a world where all the GTK+ 3 programs have different decorations to the GTK+ 2 programs and the QT 4 and QT3 programs. Not to mention the programs that run in Wine, and those that use FLTK, etc.
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar Posted Aug 23, 2012 22:25 UTC (Thu) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link] Most app developers will make the decision "let the windowing toolkit draw the decorations", because they're lazy. The ones who will make the decision "draw my own decorations" are already making that decision today.
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