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LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 23, 2013
An "enum" for Python 3
An unexpected perf feature
LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 16, 2013
A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
Kamp: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar
Posted Aug 20, 2012 19:01 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307)
Posted Aug 20, 2012 19:36 UTC (Mon) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501)
> Here is one example of an ironic piece of waste: Sam Leffler's graphics/libtiff
> is one of the 122 packages on the road to www/firefox, yet the
> resulting Firefox browser does not render TIFF images. For
> reasons I have not tried to uncover, 10 of the 122 packages need
> Perl and seven need Python; one of them, devel/glib20, needs both
> languages for reasons I cannot even imagine.
Libtiff, python and perl are used by various components of the GTK+ library / stack that Firefox uses. Firefox uses GTK+ rather than completely implementing printing and such on its own as it used to do (but even before that, Firefox relied on GTK+ for some basics. I believe that this is what the article refers to as code reuse. If the author's desktop is GNOME, XFCE and/or LXDE, or even if he merely uses the GIMP, he probably already has GTK+ built from a previous install and did not need to build it just for installing Firefox.
> you will find that you need three different versions of the
> make program
Maybe this is just FreeBSD? Where in Firefox's recursive build dependency on Linux can I fine any make other than gmake?
As for building glib without perl / python support: I have no idea if the FreeBSD ports system is designed to support this. The Gentoo portage system was designed to support exactly those things. But then again, most users of "Ubuntu" (as in slashdot's comment) and the likes normally don't bother (and hence don't consider this a required feature of the packaging system :-).
Posted Aug 20, 2012 21:45 UTC (Mon) by epa (subscriber, #39769)
Posted Aug 20, 2012 23:25 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307)
Or -- more probable -- the fact that the ports system has a bug (because it does not have USE flags like portage or something) that does not let you compile those dependencies without libtiff?
Posted Aug 20, 2012 23:25 UTC (Mon) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501)
So you could potentially have two copies of GTK+ on the system. But that would in fact involve a longer build time. Assuming you do want TIFF support in some other GTK+ programs, why not have it just enabled in GTK+?
So either fix it the "Ubuntu" way (build GTK+ with TIFF support for everybody) or the "Gentoo" way (build GTK+ without TIFF support for everybody. Keeping multiple copies increases your overall build time (not to mention other types of overheads).
Oh, and do you mean that Firefox (and Chromium, likewise) have this nice habit of not reusing system components? Well, this is a know issue. In the works, I guess.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 1:52 UTC (Tue) by roc (subscriber, #30627)
Firefox can use system codecs, that's not the issue here.
Posted Aug 21, 2012 23:10 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769)
Posted Aug 21, 2012 4:56 UTC (Tue) by dvdeug (subscriber, #10998)
Back to Perl and Python ... so? What's the cost? If you're talking about a tiny embedded system where only supporting one is a major space saver, then I understand the frustration, but if you're compiling Mozilla, both Perl and Python are negligible in size.
Posted Aug 20, 2012 22:41 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
(I do wonder if, as a Linux user since 1997 and a Unix user since 1993, I would count as a dotcom abandoned generation member simply because I entered the workforce in 1999...)
Posted Aug 22, 2012 13:50 UTC (Wed) by markhb (guest, #1003)
Posted Aug 22, 2012 16:34 UTC (Wed) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262)
> "So far they have all failed spectacularly, because the generation of lost dot-com wunderkinder in the bazaar has never seen a cathedral and therefore cannot even imagine why you would want one in the first place, much less what it should look like."
Lost dot-com wunderkinder?
Posted Aug 22, 2012 17:40 UTC (Wed) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091)
It's a mystery how PHK can blame the bazaar for anything. In fact I wonder why he even wants to install Firefox on FreeBSD at all instead of, I don't know, Abaco for Minix.
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