McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
Posted Aug 3, 2012 4:19 UTC (Fri) by tchernobog (guest, #73595)In reply to: McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus] by slashdot
Parent article: McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
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> This is WRONG: typing must result in selecting the first file in the current view/folder that has the typed text as a prefix (or perhaps anywhere in the name, although that differs from Windows Explorer).
I understand the problem, especially if you have a lot of files. Maybe someone should point it out *politely*, by writing to the designer team mailing list, presenting their use-case.
> Oh and the side tree view is in Windows Explorer (the file manager 90%+ of computer users are most familiar with) since 1992, and is a fundamental feature, so it really takes a madman to even consider removing it.
I don't know if it is so fundamental. For instance, in Windows Explorer it's not enforced at all, and I think it's something like 10 years since I last used this feature. The default view is the icon one. The Mac OS X Finder uses a list mode, and you can browse one branch of the tree at a time.
When I am presented with the tree view, I find it cluttered, but maybe it has something to do with the choice of the initial nodes for the tree rather than anything else. Or maybe because I have to remember also at which level is the stuff I am searching for, introducing a third dimension - while I could achieve normally the same stuff by opening two separate windows. (By the way, someone remembers the "spatial window" mode forced upon users in GNOME 2.something? *THAT* was criminal).
The main reason I can think about justifying the need to put a file manager in tree mode, is for moving files in different directories; however the "Move to" and "Create directory" new features should address most of the use cases for that.
The tree view also has a number of usability issues; a notable one is that it requires some dexterity with the mouse, especially to click on the expanding triangle. For experts, this is not an issue, but for beginners and impaired people it's not nice. Also, it works bad with touch screens.
Nevertheless, I agree that keeping it should not be a huge problem. Dropping it seems to be just silly; it shouldn't take gazillions of lines of code to be maintained (else, there's something very wrong with nautilus...).
Incidentally: in 1992 I was still using tapes for loading programs, and BBS - not Internet - were the rage... We evolve, sometimes we get it right, sometimes not, but it's better trying than stagnating. After all, you still have MATE or XFCE if you prefer to use those, no? Installing them from the package manager is easy enough.
Posted Aug 3, 2012 4:35 UTC (Fri)
by slashdot (guest, #22014)
[Link] (11 responses)
Like, for example, say you are in the "build" directory of a source tree.
The tree view then tells you immediately that there is also a "source" directory and a "docs" directory, where they are, and that the program is in a folder with the source of other programs, and you immediately learn the name of those other programs, and can go visit them easily with a single click.
Personally, I don't think "Copy to" and "Move to" specifically needs a tree view, since you can just Ctrl+C, navigate to destination, Ctrl+V (well, until the GNOME 3 geniuses remove the Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V shortcuts, which I'm sure they will if not stopped before since they "don't work with touch").
Some people might prefer to drag or Ctrl+drag files to entries in the tree view though, which is another reason to not remove established features.
> The tree view also has a number of usability issues; a notable one is that it requires some dexterity with the mouse, especially to click on the expanding triangle.
Well, this is probably a good point, but the solution is to make the triangle bigger relative to the entry, expand the clickable area in the whitespace to the left and/or make the entries taller, not to remove the feature!
You don't cut off someone's head because he has an headache.
Posted Aug 3, 2012 6:23 UTC (Fri)
by Seegras (guest, #20463)
[Link]
Hmm, you mean, doing something stupid like not sending SIGINIT and LNEXT respectively?
I don't give a damn whether windows does it, but there are enough modifier keys on a keyboard that "copy" and "paste" can be assigned something else (like "command-C", as MacOS X does it).
Posted Aug 3, 2012 6:40 UTC (Fri)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link] (8 responses)
You got that wrong buddy. You _do_ _not_ want to see where you are at all. Never. Ever!
See, Gnome Shell comes with similar "improvements", such as removal of (at least) a decade old workspace switcher. This decade old workspace switcher could tell you where you were just by glancing at it. No action required at all. Just turn your eyes to where it sits and voilà - you know.
The new behaviour is far better, you see. You have to travel with the mouse up the top (nah - just use the keyboard - they'll tell you), then either wait or click, then travel to the right to actually see the workspaces, after they "slide out". Soo much better!
So, here is what you need to do. You need to work with one file at the time, using one program at the time. OK? Because, that's the new paradigm.
;-)
Posted Aug 3, 2012 7:05 UTC (Fri)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (2 responses)
STOP! Don't give them new ideas!
Posted Aug 3, 2012 18:55 UTC (Fri)
by sciurus (guest, #58832)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 3, 2012 18:59 UTC (Fri)
by sciurus (guest, #58832)
[Link]
Posted Aug 3, 2012 9:05 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (4 responses)
You have your current path displayed at the top of the window.
Posted Aug 3, 2012 9:56 UTC (Fri)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Aug 3, 2012 18:56 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link] (2 responses)
In the case of copy and paste were you don't want to navigate to another directory in the original dialog; you must have at least two windows open. One with the path of the source and another with the path to the destination.
Tree view, while it may be a nice feature, is certainly not required to keep track of multiple paths in a graphical manner.
I am not defending the removal of the tree view or diminishing the desire of others to have such a feature. I am just saying that it's certainly not required to keep track of locations as I have not been aware that Nautilus supported tree view for many many years and it has never occurred to me that it's missing any functionality nor has it diminished my ability to copy and paste between different directories.
Posted Aug 4, 2012 1:22 UTC (Sat)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 4, 2012 2:20 UTC (Sat)
by drag (guest, #31333)
[Link]
Posted Aug 3, 2012 13:35 UTC (Fri)
by kh (guest, #19413)
[Link]
Posted Aug 3, 2012 7:14 UTC (Fri)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link]
You are looking in the wrong direction. There are two audiences: developers and so-called end-users (content-consumers, mostly). For developers tree view is absolutely vital (compare IDEs of 20 years ago which had no tree view or very rudimentary tree view and today's IDEs which invariably put tree view of the project as the cornerstone of it's look and feel). For end users it's still not as important (both iOS and Android hide even the fact that you have some filesystem on your device from casual user). Now, if GNOME removes such fundamental features then it's clear signal that it does not care about developers—but the problem here lies with the fact that there are no casual users on Linux: there are no games, no accounting programs, etc. The end result: system which is good for [almost] nobody. It clearly abandoned it's existing audience but it's built for an OS which makes it basically unusable for the Joe Average. The end result? Something bad for everybody. Either GNOME developers need to stop pretending they care about developers and start developing/embracing OS-for-the-content-consumers or they should return things like tree view which developer's value highly.
Posted Aug 7, 2012 1:29 UTC (Tue)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
For those people who like it, it's a very important feature.
Cheers,
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
> tree view, since you can just Ctrl+C, navigate to destination, Ctrl+V
> (well, until the GNOME 3 geniuses remove the Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V shortcuts,
> which I'm sure they will if not stopped before since they "don't work
> with touch").
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
I don't know if it is so fundamental. For instance, in Windows Explorer it's not enforced at all, and I think it's something like 10 years since I last used this feature. The default view is the icon one. The Mac OS X Finder uses a list mode, and you can browse one branch of the tree at a time.
McCann: Cross Cut [the future of Nautilus]
Wol