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such nastiness.such nastiness.Posted Jul 29, 2012 20:29 UTC (Sun) by krakensden (subscriber, #72039)In reply to: such nastiness. by Cyberax Parent article: Otte: staring into the abyss
you missed the sarcasm...
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such nastiness. Posted Jul 29, 2012 21:24 UTC (Sun) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
I can't tell if Matthew is being sarcastic or not.
I know Gnome 3 caused me to buy a Mac (can't afford downtime when consulting, already burned by KDE). No idea how many others have done the same thing. Anyone have numbers?
such nastiness. Posted Jul 30, 2012 3:43 UTC (Mon) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
I would assume he is being dryly sarcastic. I can understand though, I too switched to Mac OS X as my primary Unix desktop around 5 years ago from Linux. I was at a recent perl conference and it was maybe 50% Mac and 25% each for Windows and Ubuntu.
I can understand with GNOME 3 that they were trying to grab for the Brass Ring and get onto the next wave, Ubuntu is trying too as is Win8 (Mac OS X is succeeding). I've played with the latest Fedora and Ubuntu in VMs and I prefer Unity to Gnome Shell.
Switching to Apple Posted Jul 31, 2012 15:08 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Buying a Mac is a pretty drastic response, and IMO is a sellout to everything the Free Software movement stands for. There are other desktop environments besides the Big 2 and some of them are a pretty painless transition from GNOME 2.
Switching to Apple Posted Jul 31, 2012 18:18 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
True, but there are bigger sellouts. In my mind, here's the continuum:
consoles - ipad/iphone - windows - mac - android - linuxes - gnewsense
I'm just trying to find a stable platform for work while staying as close to open source as I can. I have strong ideals but I can't bill for trying out desktop environments and tracking down display bugs.
When F15 dropped, I had some tight deadlines. After finding Gnome3 unusable on both my work computers (yes, bugs filed), I spent two vacation days trying, xfce, lxde, and E17. All failed for different reasons (often ssh-agent unreliability/conflicts, which we use heavily). Any suggestions on what else to try? KDE4 wasted a lot of time, not feeling real compelled to go back there.
I found myself out of time and out of options... I needed something that would work THAT DAY and the the Mac was a desperation move. It saved my job. I miss FFM but, other than that, I was productive within 1/2 hour of opening the box. Plus, I must say, the 13" Air is a phenomenal form factor. C'mon ultrabooks, catch up!
It's somewhat heartbreaking... I've used Linux for work since 1997 (with some forays into Solaris). When a Linux desktop environment appears that just works reliably and long term (c'mon Cinnamon!), I'll put Linux on this Air. Maybe in two years.
And, if Apple ever pulls a Gnome3, KDE4, or Windows8, I'll switch to something else.
Relative sellout-ness Posted Jul 31, 2012 18:52 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Interesting continuum. I'm not sure that Windows is more of a sellout than Mac. I'd either reverse that or have them tied. Any suggestions on what else to try? I'm surprised XFCE failed for you... it works well for me and I have no issues with ssh-agent. C'mon ultrabooks, catch up! My daughter runs Debian on a Toshiba Satellite Z830 and I drool with envy...
Relative sellout-ness Posted Jul 31, 2012 20:28 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
Here's my XFCE story: https://lwn.net/Articles/474610/ :)
That post ends on a positive note but I never quite got it stable... I don't remember what the problem was, something related to running half XFCE services and half Gnome I'm sure.
Haven't tried .10 yet, maybe ssh-agent is fixed.
Relative sellout-ness Posted Jul 31, 2012 20:36 UTC (Tue) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
Actually, starting here might make more sense: https://lwn.net/Articles/474469/
Wow, was I thrashing. You can almost hear the panic in my voice. :)
Relative sellout-ness Posted Aug 1, 2012 0:09 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Ah, OK. I guess we have different use-cases for desktop environments. I use XFCE to launch my web browser, my mail client, and as many xterms as I can decently run. :) Once those are up, I'm a command-line guy... I hardly use the "desktop" stuff for anything.
Relative sellout-ness Posted Aug 1, 2012 0:26 UTC (Wed) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
Those are pretty much my needs too... ssh-agent is command line.
I do require working sound, power manager, and network manager though.
Relative sellout-ness Posted Aug 1, 2012 11:20 UTC (Wed) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
Suggestion: try kubuntu. Eliminate things you don't need, and you'll have a lean desktop environment, with working sound, power management, and network management. There are also many GOOD media-management apps (if you need them) like Amarok and Digikam, but if you don't need them, you also have lightweight viewers/players available. Konsole is fast, and I use YaKuake for my command-line needs (being able to switch to it with a hotkey is nice)... They are both tabbed, but I usually use tmux for the remote-ability, so I use the tabs only sporadically. People dislike kmail/kontact, but I have been using it with lots of email successfully for a long time now. I use VirtualBox a lot for my other-OS needs. And wine, too, via wine-ppa. I use mainly Chrome, but I have Firefox installed for fallback (and for having a second browser, going thru a different proxy setup).
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