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DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updatesDiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updatesPosted Jul 6, 2012 19:49 UTC (Fri) by GhePeU (subscriber, #56133)Parent article: DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates
After years of aspiring to improve software usability, I've come to the extremely humbling realization athat the single best thing most companies could do to improve usability is to stop changing the UI so often! Let it remain stable long enough for us to learn it and get good at it. There's no UI better than one you already know, and no UI worse than one you thought you knew but now haver to relearn.
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DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 6, 2012 20:43 UTC (Fri) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link]
That's already know, it was formalised by Jakob Nielsen who said something like that "unless something is a 100% improvement over the previous version, it should not be changed" ( not sure of the exact wording ).
However, that's also contradicting the nature of free software, ie that's open innovation. So people do see version that are not perfect, because we do not restrict them from using ( or they would not give feedback ).
So unless you advocate to never change anything ( cause every UI change requires to relearn it ), this cannot be realistically applied to free softwar. IE, people complain when it change too much, when it change too often, and when thing are broken and do not change.
Basically, what people want is something right from the first version. And that's not how it work, not only for free software, but for most software, no one can be right at the start, or at least, not without being wrong a couple of time before. But you can have a pony if you want.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 6, 2012 21:33 UTC (Fri) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]
Of course it can be applied to free software. You fix bugs in what people are doing now, and you also do experimental work, and when you have a new feature that is a huge win, you merge it. But if you just randomly change things every time a developer has an idea or reads a paper, you only succeed in driving the users away.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 7, 2012 9:54 UTC (Sat) by russell (subscriber, #10458) [Link]
Totally agree, especially lately, new free software user interfaces are a regression, taking away functionality, even to the point of not being able to accomplish the task they are intended for. That is way too early to release.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 6, 2012 22:45 UTC (Fri) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]
I vote for free tattoos! Seriously, I'd put money into sponsoring that.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 7, 2012 4:31 UTC (Sat) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]
Could we please put him in charge of GNOME?
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 7, 2012 10:54 UTC (Sat) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
Gnome 3.0 was the first major UI change in 9 years. Every release before that and since then has been largely incremental.
Unless you take what the man said to be 'never ever change the UI ever', which it doesn't seem that way, then I don't think it would of made much of a difference.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 7, 2012 12:13 UTC (Sat) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
The problem with Gnome 3 (G)UI change is that it addressed a problem nobody had: how to do single tasking efficiently. In the process, it forced everyone into using more clicks/moves to do mundane things like starting an app and lost the ability to do even the most trivial of customisations without writing code.
Sure, one has to remove the current app screen on a smartphone that has 150k pixels all up, in order to show the menu. Doing this on my laptop that has ten times more is nonsense. Plenty of space for everything.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 9, 2012 1:23 UTC (Mon) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> The problem with Gnome 3 (G)UI change is that it addressed a problem nobody had: how to do single tasking efficiently.
That's a completely bogus statement. There isn't much to discuss further, unfortunately.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 9, 2012 8:11 UTC (Mon) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
You probably didn't read the design documents that explain the rationale of the UI changes then. Paraphrase: users must be uninterrupted and focused on their task. Sounds a lot like a text terminal to me...
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 9, 2012 15:02 UTC (Mon) by pkolloch (subscriber, #21709) [Link]
I guess your intention was to ridicule Gnome 3 but it touches something true for me.
In the 90s I used to retreat to text console only from time to time and I felt incredibly productive. It made it very easy to focus on the task for me.
Now, it might not be a surprise to you that I love Gnome 3 except of some details (chatting feels awful to me).
With all the complaining about Gnome 3 I wonder if it is possible to create a good shell for everyone.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 12, 2012 0:53 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
> In the 90s I used to retreat to text console only from time to time and I felt incredibly productive. It made it very easy to focus on the task for me.
Nobody is doubting the usefulness of being left along with the task at hand. It's just that Gnome 2 could do that just fine, if with minor tweaks (autohide panel, turn off notifications, maximise window). Forcing everyone to endure constant expose animations and change of views just to achieve the supposed peace was the mistake I was talking about.
And, of course, you now have to write Javascript code (or convince someone to do it), to (re)move an icon, for instance. Totally ridiculous.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 12, 2012 20:58 UTC (Thu) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652) [Link]
I almost always use maximized windows (more and more applications support tabbed environment BTW), but maximized window does not span to my second monitor. This makes Gnome 2 more effective IMO.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 7, 2012 13:41 UTC (Sat) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]
The basic rule is that you can change your internals at a fast pace, but breaking interfaces with others is the ultimate sin. That's just as true for the kernel as for the interface with users.
Sadly that's not something the average developper wants to hear
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 8, 2012 10:36 UTC (Sun) by Pawlerson (guest, #74136) [Link]
No, it's not true for the kernel, because most of the drivers are shipped with it. Stable API is a nightmare.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 8, 2012 23:34 UTC (Sun) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
I believe the comment you're replying to meant external interfaces. For the kernel, that would be the kernel/userspace interface, which *is* stable. Thou Shalt Not Break User Space.
Likewise for a user interface. Rewrite the whole app if you must, but don't change the UI any more than is necessary.
DiCarlo: Everybody hates Firefox updates Posted Jul 8, 2012 23:40 UTC (Sun) by cwillu (subscriber, #67268) [Link]
He was referring to the API presented to user-space, which is in fact sacred.
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