> I don't know how to solve this. I want a nice UI, too, and that involves hard choices. But I kind of wish we could have a world-class input method first, and then integrate into Gnome, instead of planning on a couple years of nasty, user-visible breakage while third-parties scramble to fix everything.
Isn't the whole point of this article that there is no world-class input method system that just works for everyone? In this case the Gnome devs aren't breaking anything that isn't already broken.
In other words, all of their current options suck *now*, but they're going to go with the option that they feel will take the least amount of effort to improve into what they want/need. They made their choice based on sound technical arguments.
Posted Jun 27, 2012 13:58 UTC (Wed) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285)
[Link]
But they probably will break things that aren't broken.
There are people who have managed, however they had to do it, to get input systems working in current versions of Gnome.
Everyone suspects because of past history with these things, that these new improved versions of Gnome will break all the currently working things. And, these new "improved" versions of Gnome will have no way to turn off the new things because the Gnome developers want to force everyone else to fix the problems rather than revert to what already works.
The distros don't help with this because they make it nearly impossible to run older versions of desktop software. For example, if you want to use a new version of Ubuntu, all of the packaged software will be linked to the newest possible version of Gnome. The same with Fedora.
For many people then, to keep using software that works and still get at least some modern features, like hardware support for this year's laptops, they will have to switch to using Gentoo Linux or more likely Mac OS X.
So in the quest to make things "better" Gnome developers often end up making it impossible to get work done and drive people to proprietary software.
GNOME and input method integration
Posted Jul 3, 2012 12:25 UTC (Tue) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266)
[Link]
> like hardware support for this year's laptops, they will have to switch to using Gentoo Linux or more likely Mac OS X.
Mac OS X only has hardware support for a few laptop models.
GNOME and input method integration
Posted Jul 3, 2012 16:35 UTC (Tue) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285)
[Link]
And on those laptop models OS X works perfectly.
I do know that when I upgraded to a Macbook Pro in 2008 it was a great relief and very refreshing to know that every time I closed the lid it went to sleep. Every time I opened the lid it woke up.
It didn't stay awake and burn away the battery because Gnome had decided to create their own power management daemon and do it very badly. (Oooh, there's a sysfs file that is missing/in the wrong place/has different contents or permissions! I had better crash and not restart!)
It didn't kernel panic on resume.
Playing sound worked in every application, every time, without needing to search for whatever app had locked the sound device.
Linux cannot claim these things. It is certainly a more interesting OS, but it does cause a strain.
GNOME and input method integration
Posted Jun 27, 2012 14:34 UTC (Wed) by emk (guest, #1128)
[Link]
> Isn't the whole point of this article that there is no world-class input method system that just works for everyone? In this case the Gnome devs aren't breaking anything that isn't already broken.
I don't have good answers here. I want a nice, standard input method that Just Works, too. I'm happy if that's ultimately iBus, at least if I can convince it to handle phonetic input with manual commits, preferably without writing a lot of C code.
What we have now are a number of clunky-but-mature solutions that cover a lot of use-cases: Traditional Chinese (for Taiwan), phonetic customizations (for Chinese "dialects"), online dictionary lookup, enterprise users who run Java apps, Emacs users who need both XCompose *and* an input method, and so on. Chinese speakers probably get all this from their distro, whereas users with specialized needs probably spent a day reading tutorials and kicking stuff.
As far as I can tell, iBus is well-designed but relatively immature, and it's of limited utility outside of Gnome.
I can see some sensible ways forward: We could announce that iBus is the future, make it an overridable default in most distributions, and spend a year or two ironing out the bugs. Or we could just go ahead and make iBus mandatory in the next release, while it's still half-baked.
I really want a beautiful, well-designed UI, and I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of customization to get one. But I'm not willing to put up with massive regressions every 6 months.
GNOME and input method integration
Posted Jul 7, 2012 4:35 UTC (Sat) by rodgerd (guest, #58896)
[Link]
You must have read a different article to the one I did; in the one I read, there is one option which has some shortcomings but is widely used by people who speak, read, and write CJK languages as the best option, and some other option considered vastly inferior for people who use the languages in question.
The GNOME developers, who don't for the most part have no first-hand expernience of the problem space, following their usual user-hostile model of development, ignored what their users told them and went with the less useful option on the grounds there will be jam tomorrow.
GNOME and input method integration
Posted Jul 7, 2012 15:13 UTC (Sat) by tuna (guest, #44480)
[Link]
IBus for mainland standard Chinese and Japanese work pretty well. For Cantonese and other Chinese input method types it might not be as good as other input frameworks.
The upside if Gnome would add Ibus for 3.6 is that you would not have to add and configure a lot of extra software in order to input CJK.
In Fedora 17, there is one keyboard configuration tool and one Ibus configuration tool. It is way easier just to have one.