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Vignatti: X on WaylandVignatti: X on WaylandPosted Jun 15, 2012 17:09 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304)In reply to: Vignatti: X on Wayland by Cyberax Parent article: Vignatti: X on Wayland
If in return for this we got Linux on at least 50% of desktops? Yes, the world would be a better place.I don't care how many desktops Linux is on: it seems clear that desktops are not where the future lies for most random consumers anyway. I care that my working environment is not driven into lowest-common-denominatordom by people who think that whatever policy suits *them* necessarily suits me as well. X has done a very good job of avoiding that. I'd be glad if Wayland did too (*without* having to rewrite huge chunks of Weston, thanks).
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Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 17:43 UTC (Fri) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> I care that my working environment is not driven into lowest-common-denominatordom by people who think that whatever policy suits *them* necessarily suits me as well. X has done a very good job of avoiding that.
I want copy and paste that is not broken.
This is something that X and X applications has had 28 years to fix and there shows no sign in sight.
I will take 'lowest common denominator' over 'no common denominator' or whatever X has in regards to copy+paste/drag+drop.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 18:45 UTC (Fri) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
Would you care to elaborate on that? I use Linux exclusively on the desktop for the las 15 years and all the time I can jus select something in me app, and middle-click to paste it on other app, or use ctrl-c ctrl-v just like I do in the other OSs.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 19:22 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
You weren't aware of copy/paste issues in 15 years? That seems unbelievable. Copy something, close the application where you copied it from and then try pasting it or copy something more complex than plain old text and try. If you aren't running something like klipper, you will understand.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 19:30 UTC (Fri) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
> If you aren't running something like klipper, you will understand.
So, NOW I know why I haven't seen any problems. I use kde (and klipper) since before the the turn of the century. And anyway, I usually cut and paste between open apps. I didn't even *know* it was supposed to work otherwise... ;-)
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 20:32 UTC (Fri) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link]
It's not even like Windows works any differently; it just has something like Klipper as a standard background process. If Klipper didn't have a tray icon (necessary to provide features not available in Windows, like clipboard history) you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 21:16 UTC (Fri) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]
And some part of GNOME or GTK+ has done a similar job (for at least text selections) for several years, as I'm perfectly able to paste text once I close the gedit instance from which it was copied. The fact that I don't know where this component may be found is a testament to its reliability, as if I had filed a bug on it I'd have tried to find out. :_)
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 16, 2012 9:51 UTC (Sat) by hongli (guest, #75254) [Link]
Well actually, a number of years ago I suddenly came to the realization that copy-paste worked as intended, after suddenly remembering that in the past I had to be careful not closing the application from which I copied. I was confused. Back in the days I ran all kinds of clipboard managers; I even wrote one myself. And now, since Ubuntu >= 8.10 or something, I don't see any indication of a clipboard manager yet everything worked as expected. How can that be? I Googled, but found nothing. I read the source, but couldn't find the location of the clipboard manager within 10 minutes so I gave up and just accepted that things Just Work(tm) now.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 18, 2012 10:15 UTC (Mon) by jku (subscriber, #42379) [Link]
I hope you never actually need the information, but in GNOME (and Ubuntu) clipboard and many other useful little things are handled by g-s-d: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/pl...
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 17:54 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
And I don't care about fringe users. Why should the whole architecture of the stack be geared towards them, harming 99% of 'common' users along the way?
I'm not against crazy WMs like RatPoison or XMonad, but only when their existence does not require additional expense from other users.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 19:14 UTC (Fri) by marm (guest, #53705) [Link]
Maybe because those 1% of people are those who bring you your OS kernel, compilers and device drivers? ;-)
Anyway, I don't see the "all policy belongs to the window manager" model in X harming anybody, as opposed to systems which take choices away from the users.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 15, 2012 22:56 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
Not really. Most kernel developers use pretty standard distributions these days.
Vignatti: X on Wayland Posted Jun 18, 2012 21:06 UTC (Mon) by gidoca (subscriber, #62438) [Link]
How is rewriting Weston any different from rewriting any X Window Manager?
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