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LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpyLinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpyPosted Jun 9, 2012 3:51 UTC (Sat) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432)In reply to: LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy by dlang Parent article: LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy
> At best you would get a polite brush-off (and instructions to pay for support)
Which is a perfectly fine response, and is what SHOULD happen on LKML.
There is a difference between saying "no" and publicly humiliating.
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LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 11, 2012 5:48 UTC (Mon) by broonie (subscriber, #7078) [Link]
You also have to remember that some people do things like repeatedly ask for this sort of support, contribute nothing back and ignore advice that would help them avoid their problems (IIRC the referenced example may be a case where some of that applies).
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 11, 2012 16:44 UTC (Mon) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
At that point simply ignoring the poster is the best option.
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 13, 2012 13:36 UTC (Wed) by broonie (subscriber, #7078) [Link]
Not really, there's several problems there. Completely ignore people and they'll just start complaining about that, and it does happen that people just need you to make it more obvious that there's a problem. It also means that it's less clear if you're not responding to things because you're just busy, if you're not responding to things because there are things that need to be corrected or if something else is going on.
It's just a generally bad way of correcting people's behavior.
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 13, 2012 22:32 UTC (Wed) by nevets (subscriber, #11875) [Link]
Obviously you are not in this kind of situation.
I've been complimented on being one of the politest developers on LKML. I jump into heated flames all the time without resorting to insults, even when insults are directed at me.
But as I started working on more core kernel code, and becoming more responsible for code that was used by a wider audience, I started getting some of these crazy requests. I started with the polite responses, but that just seemed to bring more craziness my direction. Then the polite brush offs, which also attracted this crap. Ignoring it made me look unprofessional (not responding to email). Finally I resorted to some insulting feedback and that seemed to work.
I wasted my own time trying to be nice. One thing that you can get from Greg's report is that kernel developers have very limited time. Time is our most precious resource. If being polite wastes time, and a quick jab is more effective, then those quick jabs become the efficient process.
Sorry, but unfortunately it's just part of the job. Now, as we are still humans, some developers can go overboard with their insults. But just imagine getting email every day from people that don't make the effort to understand the process. When being a bit of a jerk back either makes them understand or just go away, and you get more work done, one tends on being that jerk.
If you're creative with your insult you might even get the added benefit of appearing on LWN's "Quote of the week" :-)
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 18, 2012 12:36 UTC (Mon) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> Ignoring it made me look unprofessional (not responding to email). Finally I resorted to some insulting feedback and that seemed to work.
Answering harassment or trolls is anything but professional. Ignoring harassment is definitely professional.
Whom do you trust to define what is professional versus not, the harassers?
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 18, 2012 15:05 UTC (Mon) by nevets (subscriber, #11875) [Link]
If it was harassment or troll I would definitely ignore it (or maybe just have a bit of fun with them too ;-) OK that wouldn't be professional, but it does relieve stress.
But it's usually people that expect something for nothing, or just do not listen to the responses you give. After a bit of explaining the same thing multiple times, and getting the same answer back without it going any further, is where one starts to get frustrated, and a quick jab can sometimes wake them up.
LinuxCon Japan: Making kernel developers less grumpy Posted Jun 18, 2012 16:36 UTC (Mon) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> After a bit of explaining the same thing multiple times, and getting the same answer back without it going any further,
This what I called "harassment". Please search/replace with a better term, thanks.
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