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The new "community" Mandriva

By Nathan Willis
May 23, 2012

Mandriva SA, the company behind the Mandriva distribution, has announced it will return control of the distribution back "to the community." But exactly how that will play out in practice remains unclear, since the company was unable to convince the Mageia distribution to participate in the new effort — but, conversely, is cooperating with Mageia for future products.

Communities and entities

Mandriva made the community hand-over announcement on May 17, saying that it had decided to "transfer the responsibility of the Mandriva Linux distribution to an independent entity." The announcement outlines only a rough plan, with the formation of a governing body that will include representatives from Mandriva SA, but will not be under the company's direct control. The company will also continue to contribute its engineering resources to Mandriva development. The announcement then states that the details of the organization's governance model, processes, and other infrastructure will be fleshed out over the next few months, a process to be handled by a still-in-formation workgroup of community members.

There have been several forks of the Mandriva distribution, but by far the largest is Mageia. Yet the Mageia board announced on May 21 that it had decided not to join the new Mandriva workgroup — at least, not as a group. The announcement enumerates five reasons for the decision.

First, the Mageia board feels that the Mageia.org organization already meets the needs that Mandriva SA gave for forming a new entity, and felt that the company should have joined it instead. Second, Mageia has "invested a lot of time and energy" to define Mageia as it is. Third, there is a lack of information about the future direction of the proposed Mandrake community entity. Fourth, the Mageia project does not have enough resources to take on a new project in addition to its existing work. Finally, because Mageia is already free software, code sharing between the projects can already happen without establishing any formal arrangement.

Some of the listed reasons are perplexing. Clearly the first two indicate that the project thought Mandriva SA should simply adopt Mageia as its community distribution as-is. That would offer technical challenges, since the two projects have diverged in key areas since the original split (package managers, for example), as well as trademark issues. The last two are easily justifiable — patches do already flow back and forth between the distributions, and one rarely hears of a distribution project with too much time and developer resources on its hands.

But the middle reason is a puzzle. It sounds as if the Mageia board rejected an offer to take a seat (or seats) on the Mandriva community governance entity, when the stated offer was a place in the workgroup that will define the entity's standards and practices. If the Mageia board was concerned about the future direction of the new project or entity, surely participating in the workgroup would be the best way to influence that direction for the better. Comments on the Mandrake SA announcement indicate that at least one other Mandriva fork, ROSA, is joining the workgroup.

Products, products, products

The other wrinkle in the Mandriva makeover story is Mandriva SA's May 20 product announcement. In the post, the company outlines new product plans and how they relate to the evolving situation with the base distribution. The desktop product will be based on the new community-managed version of Mandrake, as will its OEM and education offerings. Pulse2, the company's corporate system deployment and management product, will continue to be developed and contributions will be made back to the Mandriva community. The company's server offering, however, will be based on Mageia.

Mageia confirmed the arrangement in the blog post linked to above, saying that it arose out of talks with Mandriva SA. It is not clear whether the decision involves any sort of development effort on Mageia's (or individual Mageia developers') part, but the project did take pains to emphasize that it had no bearing on the future development of Mageia itself. Several commenters on the Mandriva announcement asked why the company would choose to build its server product on a different code base than its desktop product, particularly in light of the divergence between Mandriva and Mageia and Mageia's 18-month life cycle (which is brief for a server distribution).

So far, there has not been an elaboration on the business server arrangement from either party. But that could simply be lack of time; Mageia released the final version of Mageia 2 on May 22. We previewed the release in April. Mandriva, meanwhile, has started to flesh out the beginnings of its community development plan on its wiki, and ROSA has rolled out its latest release. Hopefully, with the new release out the door at Mageia, and the Mandriva workgroup taking shape, we will soon hear more details.


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The new "community" Mandriva

Posted May 24, 2012 5:39 UTC (Thu) by remmy (subscriber, #4400) [Link]

> Some of the listed reasons are perplexing.

What's perplexing about them? Mageia was formed to escape from the politics and financial woes that plagued Mandriva. It has taken a lot of time and effort to get to where Mageia currently stands, and I can well understand that people don't want to get dragged back into that.

The people who started Mageia took a big leap and made it safely to the other side. Should they now jump back and try once more to get where they already are?

Furthermore, I fail to see what is in it for Mageia. There is no incentive for Mageia to get involved in this. If both communities operate as they state they (intend to) operate, nothing prohibits anyone from collaborating in the best interest of both distributions.

>Clearly the first two indicate that the project thought Mandriva SA should simply adopt Mageia as its community distribution as-is. That would offer technical challenges, since the two projects have diverged in key areas since the original split (package managers, for example), as well as trademark issues.

>The company's server offering, however, will be based on Mageia.

Perhaps it's just me, but the author of this article seems to contradict himself here. First he calls it perplexing that it is suggested to use Mageia's RPM offering for the new Mandriva, but is the reverse situation (as hinted at in the first quote) any less perplexing? And when it comes to mentioning the server distribution to be based on Mageia, it is completely ignored as being a potential issue.

Cooperation is fine and welcomed. Suggesting that it now is Mageia that should make up with Mandriva and invest time and energy into that, is what seems most perplexing to me.

The new "community" Mandriva

Posted May 24, 2012 15:55 UTC (Thu) by misc (subscriber, #73730) [Link]

There is also a whole thread on the council ml about this :
https://ml.mageia.org/l/arc/council/2012-03/msg00078.html

( 14 Mar 2012 , if the sympa archive make your life difficult ).

But the main reason is simple.
"people are free to do what they want". A group of volunteer cannot do much besides doing the work itself. So if no one stepped to participate, the project can just state the obvious. There is no CTO to say "you will work on this as part as your job".

And while it is quite exciting to be part as something new for Mandriva people ( as some have invested lots of time in this ), it seems obvious to me that this is less exciting for people who did it 2 years ago. Would have Mageia turned out to be a fiasco, yeah, I am sure people would have participated and tried again ( Mageia was not the first attempt to have a community project, but it is so far the most successful ). But it is working fine, so no one feel the urge to start again almost from scratch.

And I am sure than with a more concrete proposal ( because that's always the main point, everybody is ok to collaborate, but what does that mean in practice is much more complex ), things could change.

The new "community" Mandriva

Posted Jun 1, 2012 8:19 UTC (Fri) by chojrak11 (guest, #52056) [Link]

There's a few references to Mandrake in the text. Is that intentional? I'm loosely following Mandriva since its Mandrake times, but I remember the copyright storms from the Mandrake the Magician. I thought Mandrake was over as a Linux distro.

so, regarding politics

Posted Jun 1, 2012 10:28 UTC (Fri) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]

It's not over (at least there's Mageia and I think it's worth supporting) but IMNSHO the project/product/company has fell prey to IBM/RH play in the Russian government market at least to some extent (an icing on the top of Duval's ejection and subsequent events). Watch the fingers:
  • back in 2007 or so, Denis Sosnovtsev from IBM Russia told me in person that despite all the effort in governmental sector spearheaded by ALT Linux, he doesn't see them as the fit company since IBM is fine with Red Hat and he personally is a convinced globalist;
  • in 2008, ALT Linux and partners performed a pilot project delivering free software to the schools throughout three test regions of Russian Federation that was a complete success (surprisingly to many including me);
  • in 2009, PingWinSoft company was incorporated and took over the whole country deployment project just to fail it miserably (and in the same time trying to kill off ALT Linux by making private proposals to the team members to support its fork which it has abandoned later);
  • Rosalab was created by the same PigWinSoft people (including investors and management) and tried to take over ALT Linux/Sirius developments for National Software Platform (a bit more complicated since they have also effectively ruined RASPO, a FLOSS support association, along that way);
  • at the very last days of December 2011, all the RASPO-proposed distributions for NSP were rather rejected *except* for the Red Hat clone made by VNIINS (which has in turn been essentially taken over by Red Hat regarding technology several years ago via IBM RU/VDEL) which was approved with numerous questionable bits in the process;
  • the latest news is that ministry of communications decided to rather fail the whole NSP project altogether.

So my take is that Mandriva was taken as a change coin to kill off ALT Linux as a local software vendor incompatible with politics carried out by Big Blue: "just pay up, consume what we give you and don't touch anything" (a quote from Sosnovtsev again).

It's not entirely surprising that it's hard for any honest man to deal with folks plunging into activities like killing off someone else just to be killed off either.

And we at ALT Linux Team are still working on providing reasonably independent IT research and development in operating environments for Russia. My best wishes to colleagues at Mageia project and my hope's that goodwill is what finally prevails.

so, regarding politics

Posted Jul 18, 2012 2:57 UTC (Wed) by proyvind (guest, #74683) [Link]

I think you need to realise the very true fact that there's simply *NO* formal relations between Mandriva and ROSA anymore, which has been the case for more than a half year..

Continuing to trolling and slandering Mandriva for businiss in Russia which it's not even involved with or having any influence on is simply highly inaccurate and not very nice at all..

Please give it a rest.

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