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Dividing the Linux desktop
LWN.net Weekly Edition for June 13, 2013
A report from pgCon 2013
Little things that matter in language design
if your distro decides thats fast and new is better than old and slow, and you disagree then maybe you are using the wrong distro for your needs.
Security quotes of the week
Posted May 22, 2012 13:17 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
But, more featureful? Sorry, I'm using syslog-ng. The journal is *enormously* less flexible than syslog-ng, and I'm not running a log farm that needs to log a million messages a second so performance is not that crucial for me. Not that syslog-ng has a problem with performance either. Also I don't want to lose my logs merely because I choose to use a different init system.
Also I'm logging over the network, which last I heard the journal doesn't support, which makes its claims of high performance bizarre because next to nobody needs high logging performance on a single host. But that's not what 'high performance' seems to mean in the journal world: apparently the only performance attribute which matters is boot time. Now I boot my systems once every few weeks. I don't much care about boot time, and 80% of my boot time is spent in the BIOS as it is so no matter what anyone does my systems will be booting slowly. I can see how boot time matters if you're using a tiny tablet or something, but not everyone is using tablets or laptops, even today.
So as far as I can see the journal provides me with a bit of useful security functionality (coming to a syslog daemon near you soon, perhaps) combined with boot time improvements I don't need, a massive reduction in functionality and a wholly unnecessary tie to a fantastically involved and recomplicated init system which is taking over more of the system every day -- and making me less and less desirous of switching to it as it does, because who knows what the heck it'll take over next?
I liked the idea of systemd when it was just a much better init. Now it's a better init and cron and session manager and daemonize() and syslogd and who knows what the hell else -- I stopped keeping track -- there's no *way* I'm going anywhere near it. Boot-critical subsystems with feature creep this severe scare the hell out of me.
I *liked* PulseAudio. It didn't have feature creep. It knew what it did and it did it much better than anything else out there. systemd? I have no idea *what* it's for anymore, other than 'everything critical to system function in one basket ready to drop'. It gives me kitchen-sink fear, and as an Emacs user I'm almost immune to that.
Posted May 22, 2012 17:44 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
Yet systemd's integration with logging is massively nice: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemctl-journal.html
It's really of the "Why didn't we already do this 15 years ago?" kind.
Posted May 24, 2012 0:22 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
Posted May 24, 2012 16:56 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
Currently that number is exactly 1. The full list of abandoned projects is:
Which was obsoleted by systemd and had its maintenance passed to another developer in an orderly fashion.
udev is going to be supported well into 2020 at least because it's used in RHELs.
Posted May 28, 2012 13:37 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
Posted May 28, 2012 13:39 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
Posted May 28, 2012 14:38 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
Yes, it might be argued that systemd has too much scope. But this argument is clearly subjective.
Posted May 24, 2012 12:06 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
Posted May 25, 2012 14:24 UTC (Fri) by TRauMa (guest, #16483)
Posted May 28, 2012 13:35 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
The admin overhead once you get things spinning properly is minimal, until someone throws a major change like this into the works. systemd et al is clearly better than init, but... I just can't trust that it won't keep expanding in scope until it's eaten things I rely on. :( Scope creep is a terrible thing, and systemd seems to have a really serious case of it.
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