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Quotes of the weekQuotes of the weekPosted Apr 6, 2012 18:39 UTC (Fri) by jonabbey (subscriber, #2736)In reply to: Quotes of the week by daglwn Parent article: Quotes of the week
Linus makes fun of bad code and silly ideas to encourage the improvement thereof, not to be derogatory or mean. He makes fun of himself publicly just as much.
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Quotes of the week Posted Apr 8, 2012 0:15 UTC (Sun) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
It's a FAR different thing to be self-deprecating than to abuse others in public.
And it is abuse, whatever his intentions. It's language that would not be acceptable in any reasonable workplace.
The appropriate response would be to point out the shortcomings in the code and TEACH. But that's too inconvenient and takes too much time and effort, apparently. It feels better just to let the flames fly and see if the poor soul comes back.
There was a professor in my graduate school just like that. The first week I was there and looking for an adviser I set up a meeting with him. He's a really famous guy but there was no way I was going to work with that prick.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 0:57 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
If you read Linus' rants then you'll see that he always describes WHY you are an idiot and what you should do to stop this.
I.e. actually _teaches_.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 3:59 UTC (Mon) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
Sometimes. But that does NOT excuse abuse.
One can teach without abusing.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 4:02 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]
Can one also teach without abuse AND pedantry?
Your anger is clear. Your argument is not. Your style is counter-productive.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 16:38 UTC (Mon) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
What's hard to understand about, "don't abuse people?"
I used to think that was common human understanding. Now I'm not so sure.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 17:04 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]
Of course it's not simple. All humans have different definitions of abuse. Even for people who understand that, it's not easy to comprehend what others see as abuse.
It's Linus's kernel, his rules. If you perceive his methods as abuse, then stay away. Those who don't see it as abusive will remain. If not enough people are willing to accept Linus's standards, the kernel will suffer, or be forked.
Such is life.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 11, 2012 4:45 UTC (Wed) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
There are well-establish norms for what is acceptable in the workplace. What Linus does is not. The workplace standard is something any project that considers itself professional should aspire to.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 11, 2012 5:03 UTC (Wed) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]
No. You have your norms and other people have other norms. Linus has different norms too, and enough other people think similarly for it to be perfectly acceptable. It is none of your business to tell others what their norms should be. You do not set norms for anyone else, let alone everybody else.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 12, 2012 14:24 UTC (Thu) by endecotp (guest, #36428) [Link]
> It's Linus's kernel, his rules. If you perceive his methods as
> abuse, then stay away.
The important question is: can a project afford to alienate potential contributors who choose to stay away for reasons like this?
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 12, 2012 14:28 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] It up to the people working on the project to decide. Linux is not yet forked thus the answer is obvious "yes".
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 12, 2012 18:30 UTC (Thu) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]
khim has it in a nutshell. There are no hard and fast rules on what works everywhere. If Linus turns out to have made a bad choice, it will show up when the kernel forks, in which case you will have been right. But it hasn't forked in 20 years, meaning so far Linux has made a good enough choice. If you think you can do better, fork it.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 12, 2012 23:53 UTC (Thu) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link]
Don't forget, 1. $BDOL is always right, 2. and should there be a time where he's not, see 1. :)
[This originally from perl & Larry.]
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 13, 2012 12:21 UTC (Fri) by james (subscriber, #1325) [Link]
The 2.4-ac kernels were pretty close to a (mostly-)amicable fork within the same community (with Alan Cox in charge instead of Linus), and a good example of how the community can work round Linus where necessary.
The fact that it's only really happened that once shows that even when Linus makes the wrong choice, he can usually be talked round. The fact that it happened at all shows that the future of Linux doesn't rest in one person's hands.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 13, 2012 16:35 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
I would say that the kernel forks all the time. The Android kernel is a fork, most server vendor kernels are forks, many kernel developers have their own public forks. What defines Linux is not the lack of forks, it's the ease of merging and cross pollination of forks.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 17:39 UTC (Mon) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
> What's hard to understand about, "don't abuse people?"
Head down to your local courthouse and sit in on some cases. You'll discover that things are rarely black and white.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 10, 2012 14:15 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
And maybe you will come out with a different definition of "abuse".
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 4:05 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
Nope. Linus _always_ explains why you are an idiot. Often in excruciating details.
He thinks that if you can't handle the truth stated without regards for your ego, then you are not good enough for Linux development.
And it works.
Quotes of the week Posted Apr 9, 2012 8:22 UTC (Mon) by PaXTeam (subscriber, #24616) [Link]
> Linus _always_ explains why you are an idiot. Often in excruciating details.
nope, he doesn't always do that. i have first hand experience :).
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