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Dividing the Linux desktop
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Little things that matter in language design
Oh, of course they could have used X-server. LOL.
Free is too expensive (Economist)
Posted Apr 1, 2012 3:28 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
From their FAQ: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_2
> Wayland is not really duplicating much work. Where possible,
> Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure. One of the
> reasons this project is feasible at all, is that Wayland reuses
> the DRI drivers, the kernel side GEM scheduler and kernel mode setting.
> Wayland doesn't have to compete with other projects for drivers and
> driver developers, it lives within the X.org, mesa and drm community and
> benefits from all the hardware enablement and driver development happening
Since Wayland was designed as an open project, they considered needs of others as well. Android was designed for its own sake only, so you see the result - totally incompatible graphical stack, which doesn't share any success and effort with the rest of Linux.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 6:20 UTC (Sun) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
And it has taken about 4 years to kick the Linux graphics stack into shape.
Besides, UI library is only a small part of Android.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 7:16 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 1, 2012 8:09 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
Android was designed for its own sake only, so you see the result - totally incompatible graphical stack
Correction: Android was developed for app developers, not for “it's own sake only”. They used Linux as HAL and explicitly excluded all the userspace components (except few which they used to save development cost).
And there is real danger that the story will repeat itself on desktop if people leave it to Google.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 8:30 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 1, 2012 9:41 UTC (Sun) by alankila (subscriber, #47141)
- retailers that sell your devices (laptops?) with software preinstalled. Every hardware thing you ship and officially support must work without a hitch.
- credible application market. You are never going to get off the ground unless you allow for proprietary software, which takes in form of independent software vendors writing code on the platform. Proprietary software is critical for the symbiosis of end-user and developer interest on the platform.
- commitment to a stable ABI that works (= never break applications that worked on any previous version). The nice thing about a laptop/PC using x86 is that there's usually a whole lot of system resources and techniques that can be spent on this, so backwards compatibility could actually be fairly easy. The key to success is this principle: new version can not be deployed if it breaks old code.
As far as I can tell, the community has tremendous trouble with all of the above. First requires capital and credible story for a linux device as product, including a way to earn revenue from the thing eventually; second requires giving up on software freedom ideals for the sake of capturing user and (proprietary) developer interest; and third requires developer professionalism that tends to come only with a paycheck, because it's frustrating and thankless soul-sucking work.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 17:23 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 1, 2012 18:00 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
To a world where normal people have usable system and geeks have their toys?
Oh, you mean that it killed bunch of losers? Nope, I don't mourn them. They had their chance and squandered it.
All in all it'll be good outcome although I'm not sure Google will be able to pull it on desktop.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 18:07 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 1, 2012 20:36 UTC (Sun) by alankila (subscriber, #47141)
Think about it: with money, you can hire developers, while at the same time you grow your own market share, which makes hardware vendors pay attention to you. At some point they are starting to do work for your behalf, because you are important enough to matter. Imagine this: a new GPU chip arrives and instead of spending a few years of pestering the vendor for specifications to write a driver with, the vendor contributes a driver on the same day the thing hits market. Everything becomes easier with market share, but without it, there's a risk of being squeezed out of the game entirely.
Posted Apr 1, 2012 21:46 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 2, 2012 8:32 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
But again, KDE is a non profit, and directions are defined by the community.
I think you don't understand what “non profit” means. It looks like you perceive “non profit” as “someone altruistic who's fighting for the better future” and who's, obviously, “is not driven by money”.
Nothing can be further from truth! Here is an example of non-profit organisation. It precedes KDE, GNOME and Mozilla and deals with commercial interests all the time.
Nonprofit just means that participants are not planning to ever withdraw profits. They are supposed to be used to further pursue the goal of given non-profit. In a lot of cases these goals are better served when non-profit cooperates with some other for-profit entities - and when you do that you must think about market, about 90% of people just don't care about software in this sort of way, etc.
Posted Apr 2, 2012 16:33 UTC (Mon) by shmerl (guest, #65921)
Posted Apr 5, 2012 13:34 UTC (Thu) by alankila (subscriber, #47141)
To use an analogy: Bioware used to make great games for over a decade, founded by people who were evidently very passionate about gaming, until EA bought them and apparently destroyed the company and its values from inside. No matter: I think that the world is still better for Bioware's existence, even if it never again made another good game.
Posted Apr 5, 2012 9:51 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
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