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Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 29, 2012 21:10 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
In reply to: Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious by RobSeace
Parent article: Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Who wouldn't love running a distro named Thor or Zeus or Bacchus??
Just so long as we can name one "Flying Spaghetti Monster", I'm in.


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Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 29, 2012 21:46 UTC (Thu) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]

"Flying Spaghetti Monster" is-a mythical edible creature, as is Beefy Miracle.

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 29, 2012 22:45 UTC (Thu) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

...and you're not afraid of offending the gluten intolerant...?

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 30, 2012 0:28 UTC (Fri) by kevinlyles (subscriber, #77866) [Link]

Perhaps FSM's noodly appendages are made of rice pasta?

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 30, 2012 0:54 UTC (Fri) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link]

Taking a bit of a philosophical twist....

I could never understand why people get offended by anything. I mean - why bother?

If someone says something (or doesn't) it either makes you feel bad or not.

If not - fine: be happy.
If it does, then this is either because there is badness in you or in them (or most likely in both, but that generalisation doesn't affect the following logic).
If the badness is in you, then be thankful for them helping you see it, and work to fix it.
If the badness is in them, then add them (on that topic) to your mental kill file and get on with your life.

Being offended, like nursing a grudge, simply is not worth it.

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 30, 2012 6:34 UTC (Fri) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link]

Tsk tsk, you philosophers. What you describe is an exact science.

It is known as the First Law Of Weakness: all particles in a system interact through meaningless messages. There's nothing you can do about it. Because of the Principle Of Conservation of Conversation, this exchange of messages wears these particles down, until -- and this is the Second Law -- they are simply too weak to keep it up. To observers in different reference frames this will look like a total, sudden collapse of the system, but to other observers some of the messages will in fact appear to have a charge, and they will -- Third Law -- become attracted to the system, and start to reciprocate.

This is a depressing state of affairs, not in the least because it has been shown that a system like this can't be halted.

(Some researchers, in a feeble attempt to save this model of our world, have proposed that if you look at the messages close enough, you may detect some meaning in them. But other researchers were quick to prove that at those scales there is an inherent uncertainty in the interpretation of any such message, rendering the whole system unstable. New developments however show that there may be a mechanism that allows any message to acquire meaning, which is obviously incredibly exciting news.)

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 30, 2012 10:30 UTC (Fri) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link]

How on Earth did you reincarnate Douglas Adams and get him to write that for you?!

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 30, 2012 11:21 UTC (Fri) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link]

[the] exchange of messages wears these particles down, until they are simply too weak to keep it up. [...] to other observers some of the messages will in fact appear to have a charge, and they will become attracted to the system and reciprocate

I have the solution!1 The naming process should produce always-offending names, just so that it offends the most people possible, which should lead to an eventual cold/hot death of discussions.
To that end, tyrans and dictators, mostly of the 20th century, provide for a sized starting selection. :-p

Godwin's law

Posted Mar 30, 2012 23:23 UTC (Fri) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link]

I propose Godwin as a release name that:
  • includes a "God" in its name,
  • precludes invocation of Hitler to end the naming thread,
  • and secludes participants from non-nerd contexts.
Everyone loses!

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Mar 31, 2012 6:33 UTC (Sat) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link]

If the badness is in them, then add them (on that topic) to your mental kill file and get on with your life.

That's a strategy that only works when the offense is basically minor, when you're in a position of power that lets you brush off other people's hostility toward you. When offensive language is often used by people who engage in discrimination or violence, it's a lot harder to ignore. If it's used in ignorance, it's a sign that the person using it needs to be educated. If offensive language is used deliberately, it's a sign that the person using it bears us (or whomever they're targeting) ill will. When we let people get away with being offensive, it legitimizes the more dangerous behavior that the offensive language is associated with. I'm not suggesting that we need to make offensive speech illegal, but I do think it needs to be considered socially unacceptable along with the views it supports.

As an example in the Free Software world, this is why the Ada Initiative is pushing for a code of conduct that includes preventing sexist speeches and presentations. You can't draw a neat line between allowing sexist speech and creating an environment that's hostile to women, or between creating an environment that's hostile toward women and one that's actually dangerous. The only thing to do is to make it clear that even offensive behavior is unacceptable, much less anything stronger.

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Apr 1, 2012 22:59 UTC (Sun) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link]

Your point is well made. Attempting to heal the badness in the other person can be an alternative to ignoring it - sometimes a preferred alternative. I guess I am guilty of over-generalising.

I think the present issue of Fedora naming is "basically minor" - there is no evidence of deliberate offense, at most there is carelessness. Feeling offended by that - especially when there was a community voting process to choose the name - seems miss-placed.

Caring enough to feel offended, but not caring enough to contribute seems like the entitlement culture that Jake was writing about recently[1]

[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/481901/

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Apr 5, 2012 9:41 UTC (Thu) by njs (guest, #40338) [Link]

It's not so much that "attempting to heal the badness [is] an alternative to ignoring it", it's that ignoring it may not be an option. Seriously it's pretty obvious that "Beefy Miracle" is not going to play well in India, and obviously Fedora didn't care enough about those people's reactions to take them into account. It's not magic arbitrary combinations of syllables that makes people angry, it's being brushed off, told they don't matter, etc.

And the "deliberateness" of an offense is pretty irrelevant for other kinds of injuries ("hey I didn't mean to hit you with my car so we're good right?"), so why should it matter when the offense takes the form of language?

Fedora release naming "is a" bit contentious

Posted Apr 6, 2012 20:41 UTC (Fri) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link]

It's not so much that "attempting to heal the badness [is] an alternative to ignoring it", it's that ignoring it may not be an option

And the boundary is when the badness is directed outward and can hurt other people. It's a lot harder to ignore offensive speech when it has been followed up by harmful actions. Maybe Indians would be more inclined to laugh off religious slights if India hadn't been taken over by colonialists with different religious beliefs who treated them as second class citizens in their own country.

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