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GNOME 3.4 releasedGNOME 3.4 releasedPosted Mar 29, 2012 11:19 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)In reply to: GNOME 3.4 released by cortana Parent article: GNOME 3.4 released
We always release with loads of unfixed bugs. Loads of bugs don't get fixed asap (whatever the idea of asap is.. minutes/days/weeks/.../years).
If things are done better, great. But that takes real work. I think the bug you mentioned is still being thought what the best design is. So it is taking a while. Not done on purpose, not nice, but it happens.
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GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 11:33 UTC (Thu) by deepfire (subscriber, #26138) [Link]
Why don't you guys, just, you know, write down a list of essential functionality like this, next time you decide to start with a clean slate..
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 11:39 UTC (Thu) by hadess (subscriber, #24252) [Link]
> Why don't you guys, just, you know, write down a list of essential functionality like this,
> next time you decide to start with a clean slate..
Essential functionality like what? This particular bit of functionality has never worked correctly, and it was sheer luck that it didn't break anything else until now. See also:
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 15:32 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
As said already: There are bugs in every version. Usually every report is important for the reporter and people affected by it.
We do time based releases so you get the bugfixes every 6 months. We tried feature based releases and that had loads of drawbacks.
Loads of other projects switched to doing time based releases.
We've concluded that not every bug can be fixed.
Note that gnome-session and so on didn't change much, so your clean slate remark is incorrect. Furthermore, GNOME doesn't consist of guys solely.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 22:05 UTC (Thu) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]
Loads of drawbacks--yet frustrating users by breaking existing functionality is not one of them.
The bottom line is that there are two choices: doing what's best for users or what's most fun for developers. Volunteers, they may be, but "with great power comes great responsibility"--they ought to be more considerate of existing, loyal users. Oh well, there's always MATE and Cinnamon.
Please, lose the political correctness. Hey, I don't typically call girls "guys" either, but many people do, and you know what he meant, so don't go picking a fight.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 30, 2012 7:34 UTC (Fri) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
I see that you don't go into what I said regarding the way of releasing software. Suggest to try and release something the size of GNOME yourself and do that a few years.
Saying that this isn't best for users: I totally disagree and I explained the reasoning why 2 times in different ways.
Going from bugreports to "breaking functionality" (rather vague): terribly vague. I don't see how this relates to the way bugs are fixed or GNOME is released.
As hadess mentioned, that this worked reliability was by sheer luck. So I guess timing related. Meaning: The bug was always there, just never triggered.
If you want an answer from me, address what I say a bit more concretely please and don't bring up vague stuff.
PS: Why focus so much on a remark I placed at the end? And I do mean it, but it is not to start a fight, nor to be politically correct. I find it terribly odd you interpret it as such. GNOME has started various projects to get women involved. Yet you still see posts by women who say that they feel harassed or just excluded.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 30, 2012 18:02 UTC (Fri) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]
Perhaps it's a cultural difference. The reality is that many people refer to mixed groups of people as "guys". It's become almost a generic term for people, like "folks." I don't like it, but that's the way it is. So it's rather absurd to take offense at it.
What if I said that I take offense at anyone's taking offense at it? That makes about as much sense. ;)
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 30, 2012 23:57 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Quite. We should be using 'guy' to mean specifically male Catholic would-be revolutionaries who failed at the last moment, were captured and executed, and get burned symbolically on an annual basis. Or perhaps their mannequins. (That is, after all, where the term comes from.)
It has already expanded wildly in meaning since those days (even in the UK, where that expansion is relatively recent): I don't see any problem with its expanding a little more.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 31, 2012 13:37 UTC (Sat) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
I know it happens often. I just think it is wrong. You never had women object to this? Where I work I have 10+ nationalities and used to be way more btw.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 31, 2012 20:26 UTC (Sat) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]
In my experience, I've "objected" to it more than any females have.
Why do you suddenly change gears from sex to nationality? Bait and switch? ;)
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 11:50 UTC (Thu) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]
And this is fair enough, but you have to understand how frustrating it is for users when functionality that they rely on for productivity is yanked away from them.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 15:36 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
I do, that is what I meant with "not nice".
Stuff is released with known bugs. We make a list of blocker bugs, but it is more of a "what must and can be fixed before x.x.0". There are just too many bugs.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 19:12 UTC (Thu) by Company (guest, #57006) [Link]
To be fair, we are pretty bad at fixing bugs or stability in GNOME 3.
Granted, that is on purpose, because we are iterating a lot faster than in the late GNOME 2 series, but it's worth pointing out nonetheless.
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 29, 2012 19:46 UTC (Thu) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link]
Personally, I've been quite impressed with the speed at which GNOME has fixed bugs---as long as they don't get immediately closed with something equivalent to "that's a feature".
GNOME 3.4 released Posted Mar 30, 2012 7:49 UTC (Fri) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
I really have no clue on this. There are some terribly annoying bugs, but they either get fixed quickly, or are left because the fix is hard or unknown (e.g. extensions not working on various distributions except Fedora: wtf. no clue if common packaging bug or upstream).
I'm terrible at QA: Always run the latest tarballs, but usually don't even trigger the most obvious crashers. I just rely on following Bugzilla for that (GNOME and Mageia).
I'm aiming at allowing people to follow GNOME more closely. More people tracking GNOME means hopefully more contributors (testers, triagers, and maybe eventually developers).
I do know that new applications take at least a cycle to get better. But we're releasing them early as well (which IMO is good). E.g. Boxes.
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