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What are the innovators to do?What are the innovators to do?Posted Mar 6, 2012 7:52 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305)In reply to: What are the innovators to do? by jafo Parent article: Shuttleworth on the Ubuntu 12.04 desktop
> nobody is forcing anyone to use Unity or GNOME 3
True, and nobody is claiming that. What everyone _is_ forced (effectively) to do is to stop using Gnome 2.
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What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:06 UTC (Tue) by xan (subscriber, #58606) [Link]
Surely you understand that you really have no moral authority to demand others free work on exactly the things you want? Yes? I bet you don't have this attitude with anything else in your life, and I'm not sure why free software creates this false sense of entitlement in people.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:18 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
> Surely you understand that you really have no moral authority to demand others free work on exactly the things you want? Yes?
Of course I do, and I'm not demanding anything (well, it'd be nice if the Gnome crowd had refrained from stomping all over Gnome 2 namespace so that Gnome 2 would at least _still be there_, but that train has sailed).
I was just objecting to the above poster's brainless demagogic misrepresentation of my (and many others') position, is all. Chill.
(Also, this doesn't really have anything to do with Unity. It's funny how every discussion about Unity here reverts to a Gnome 3 flame-fest, though.)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:25 UTC (Tue) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
I'm so tired of hearing this claim. The software that makes up the GNOME 2 "experience", i.e. gnome-panel + metacity, are still alive and well (and maintained) in the GNOME repository. Any distro that ships with GNOME 3 also ships with gnome-panel. Run it. Problem solved. Noone is forcing you to stop running anything.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 9:31 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
> Any distro that ships with GNOME 3 also ships with gnome-panel. Run it.
You mean this two-panel thing that has like 4 basic applets and cannot be configured in any obvious way? No thanks.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 14:06 UTC (Tue) by coulamac (guest, #21690) [Link]
No, that is not what he meant. The panel from Gnome 2 is still alive and well.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 14:17 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
Not in Debian Testing, unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 9, 2012 10:25 UTC (Fri) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
You have to hold down ALT when you right-click on the panel to configure it... ? :-)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 10, 2012 0:10 UTC (Sat) by fragmede (subscriber, #50925) [Link]
Wait, what? *Tries it out* Hey, cool!
I'd given up on gnome-panel as stupid and useless, turns out I needed to add a modifier instead of just using right click like I used to.
Too bad I've already switched away from Gnome on the host. (Yay for VirtualBox.)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 10, 2012 8:30 UTC (Sat) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
Glad it helped :-)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 19:57 UTC (Tue) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link]
> The software that makes up the GNOME 2 "experience", i.e. gnome-panel + metacity, are still alive and well (and maintained) in the GNOME repository.
I think it can be argued that gnome-panel alone is the primary ingredient of the GNOME 2 "experience." There are several suitable window manager that can replace Metacity (Openbox, Compiz, Xfwm4, etc.), but it's hard to find a replacement for gnome-panel. Xfce-panel is close, but not quite there.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 11:38 UTC (Tue) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]
Is there a way to install Ubuntu without installing any desktop environment at all (aside from installing the Server version)? If so, I haven't found it. It doesn't even ask. So yes, in that way people are being forced to run Unity, at least until they can get to a prompt and delete all of it. In Debian, I simply unselect the option for 'desktop environment' in tasksel, and go merrily along without all the bother. If I want a GUI, I can simply do a 'get-apt install xfce4' or whatever. I don't have to worry about cleaning out all the unwanted stuff installed by default.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 12:50 UTC (Tue) by obrakmann (subscriber, #38108) [Link]
There actually is. You need the 'alternative' install media, not the standard live cd. Then you can press a function key (I believe it's F4, but the options are spelled out at the bottom of the screen, so just have a look) to select the installation mode at boot time (it says something like 'install command line only system').
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 12:58 UTC (Tue) by simosx (subscriber, #24338) [Link]
Yeah, Ubuntu Minimal,
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
Get the 23MB minimal ISO and enjoy yourself.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 7, 2012 9:56 UTC (Wed) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link] By the way, there is already a 12.04 mini.iso, although it's not linked on the page you linked to.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 7, 2012 9:51 UTC (Wed) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]
OK, I'll give the minimal and alternative methods a try--thanks to both of you for the info. But I may still move to Debian. :)
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