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What are the innovators to do?What are the innovators to do?Posted Mar 6, 2012 3:57 UTC (Tue) by jafo (subscriber, #8892)Parent article: Shuttleworth on the Ubuntu 12.04 desktop
I recently watched a Windows 8 demo and thought to myself: "Holy crap, I wouldn't be able to tell that apart from Unity!"
We, as a community, have long liked to repeat things like "Follow the dream, not the competition". However, when someone actually does it they seem to get crapped on!
From what I saw of that Windows 8 demo, it looks to me like Linux is getting out in the lead of Windows.
Instead of being praised for innovating or trying something different, I've seen people spitting venom at Unity and GNOME 3. I'm sure they would appreciate constructive criticism, for example I just can't live without focus-follows-mouse (not available in Unity). However, I've seen little constructive in the response to these desktop environments.
But the response to trying something new seems to be: The nail that sticks out gets hammered. People are practically falling over themselves trying to be the first to criticize Unity and GNOME 3.
The thing is: nobody is forcing anyone to use Unity or GNOME 3. Install kubuntu-desktop or xubuntu-desktop or awesome or whatever you like better than Unity and carry on with your lives.
Sean
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What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 7:52 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
> nobody is forcing anyone to use Unity or GNOME 3
True, and nobody is claiming that. What everyone _is_ forced (effectively) to do is to stop using Gnome 2.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:06 UTC (Tue) by xan (guest, #58606) [Link]
Surely you understand that you really have no moral authority to demand others free work on exactly the things you want? Yes? I bet you don't have this attitude with anything else in your life, and I'm not sure why free software creates this false sense of entitlement in people.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:18 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
> Surely you understand that you really have no moral authority to demand others free work on exactly the things you want? Yes?
Of course I do, and I'm not demanding anything (well, it'd be nice if the Gnome crowd had refrained from stomping all over Gnome 2 namespace so that Gnome 2 would at least _still be there_, but that train has sailed).
I was just objecting to the above poster's brainless demagogic misrepresentation of my (and many others') position, is all. Chill.
(Also, this doesn't really have anything to do with Unity. It's funny how every discussion about Unity here reverts to a Gnome 3 flame-fest, though.)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:25 UTC (Tue) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
I'm so tired of hearing this claim. The software that makes up the GNOME 2 "experience", i.e. gnome-panel + metacity, are still alive and well (and maintained) in the GNOME repository. Any distro that ships with GNOME 3 also ships with gnome-panel. Run it. Problem solved. Noone is forcing you to stop running anything.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 9:31 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
> Any distro that ships with GNOME 3 also ships with gnome-panel. Run it.
You mean this two-panel thing that has like 4 basic applets and cannot be configured in any obvious way? No thanks.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 14:06 UTC (Tue) by coulamac (guest, #21690) [Link]
No, that is not what he meant. The panel from Gnome 2 is still alive and well.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 14:17 UTC (Tue) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]
Not in Debian Testing, unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 9, 2012 10:25 UTC (Fri) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
You have to hold down ALT when you right-click on the panel to configure it... ? :-)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 10, 2012 0:10 UTC (Sat) by fragmede (subscriber, #50925) [Link]
Wait, what? *Tries it out* Hey, cool!
I'd given up on gnome-panel as stupid and useless, turns out I needed to add a modifier instead of just using right click like I used to.
Too bad I've already switched away from Gnome on the host. (Yay for VirtualBox.)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 10, 2012 8:30 UTC (Sat) by jonasj (guest, #44344) [Link]
Glad it helped :-)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 19:57 UTC (Tue) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link]
> The software that makes up the GNOME 2 "experience", i.e. gnome-panel + metacity, are still alive and well (and maintained) in the GNOME repository.
I think it can be argued that gnome-panel alone is the primary ingredient of the GNOME 2 "experience." There are several suitable window manager that can replace Metacity (Openbox, Compiz, Xfwm4, etc.), but it's hard to find a replacement for gnome-panel. Xfce-panel is close, but not quite there.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 11:38 UTC (Tue) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]
Is there a way to install Ubuntu without installing any desktop environment at all (aside from installing the Server version)? If so, I haven't found it. It doesn't even ask. So yes, in that way people are being forced to run Unity, at least until they can get to a prompt and delete all of it. In Debian, I simply unselect the option for 'desktop environment' in tasksel, and go merrily along without all the bother. If I want a GUI, I can simply do a 'get-apt install xfce4' or whatever. I don't have to worry about cleaning out all the unwanted stuff installed by default.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 12:50 UTC (Tue) by obrakmann (subscriber, #38108) [Link]
There actually is. You need the 'alternative' install media, not the standard live cd. Then you can press a function key (I believe it's F4, but the options are spelled out at the bottom of the screen, so just have a look) to select the installation mode at boot time (it says something like 'install command line only system').
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 12:58 UTC (Tue) by simosx (subscriber, #24338) [Link]
Yeah, Ubuntu Minimal,
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
Get the 23MB minimal ISO and enjoy yourself.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 7, 2012 9:56 UTC (Wed) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link] By the way, there is already a 12.04 mini.iso, although it's not linked on the page you linked to.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 7, 2012 9:51 UTC (Wed) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]
OK, I'll give the minimal and alternative methods a try--thanks to both of you for the info. But I may still move to Debian. :)
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 8:45 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Innovators would do well to learn from their mistakes. "I don't like it" is valid feedback, and so is "get that 'orrible mess out of my sight". My lesson from that would be: do not force your disruptive choices on your users, no matter how much you like them.
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 16:40 UTC (Tue) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]
> I just can't live without focus-follows-mouse (not available in Unity)
FWIW, I use focus-follows-mouse in Unity. It works okay (global menu is inconvenient, and you can't turn it on in System Settings, there are no other issues).
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 6, 2012 16:46 UTC (Tue) by AngryChris (subscriber, #74783) [Link]
> I recently watched a Windows 8 demo and thought to myself: "Holy crap, I wouldn't be able to tell that apart from Unity!"
You find these two images to be visually similar somehow?
Unity: http://www.hackourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Ubu...
What are the innovators to do? Posted Mar 7, 2012 0:17 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]
Those aren't valid comparison images. You've got start menu activated in the Windows8 image but not the equivalent in the Unity interface. When you compare the same things in both you will find them very similar.
For example, in Windows 8 the new "Charms" on the right bezel are very similar to the left dock task bar thing in Unity. And IMO the new start bar metro thing is darn near a copy of the Unity's deployed application launcher (not sure what it's official name is). Both interfaces are touch focused and they appear to follow identical use paradigms. And the top user question if you Google "windows 8 consumer preview" is how to return to the windows 7 start menu just like the top question for 11.04 was how to disable unity. This of course shows that even a major corporation like MS can shoot themselves in the foot just as easily as Canonical can.
I expect one of two things with Windows 8, either they implement a checkbox to turn off the new metro interface or Windows 8 sees as much adoption as Vista did. Because I'll tell you one thing, when people go to use that new Metro interface they are going to be screaming louder than anyone screamed about unity because they paid money to have their productivity taken away. At least Canonical isn't taking money to degrade usability.
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