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If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica)If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica)Posted Feb 24, 2012 1:37 UTC (Fri) by karim (subscriber, #114)Parent article: If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica)
As the article aptly points, this is the story of human invention. There's always someone else that did it before, but there's always someone that made it happen for everybody else. That latter in this case is most certainly Jobs.
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If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 3:05 UTC (Fri) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]
That said, it doesn't mean they deserve a state-enforced monopoly on the techniques they stole and popularized. Kim Carnes doesn't own "Bette Davis Eyes", and Bob Dylan doesn't own "Mr. Bojangles".
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 25, 2012 2:24 UTC (Sat) by wookey (subscriber, #5501) [Link]
Please don't use the word 'stole'. It's not stealing, no matter who is doing it.
Copying, re-using and adapting good ideas is a _good_thing_. It always has been. We want good ideas to spread. The whole meme that this activity should be labeled 'stealing' is wrong, and we shouldn't be spreading it.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 26, 2012 18:14 UTC (Sun) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
Something like that.
This sort of thing is what I think of as 'Lawyering'. It's the use of mixed metaphors and analogies that is used to confuse people. They are used to present circular arguments and assumption logic with a air of logical simplicity while they are obviously erroneous if presented in a direct manner.
That is why they use 'stolen', 'theft', 'piracy', etc etc. It seems simple enough. But it's not. It's lies and and deception.
Any sort of discussion involving so-called 'intellectual property' is rife with these sort of 'lawyering' tactics. It's very irritating and makes it almost impossible to have a proper discussion of it. People apt to repeat straw arguments, bad analogies, and mystical/magical thinking over and over again as logical defense for copyrights and patents.
etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day.
In reality all this 'IP' bullshit really amounts to is a attempt to create a thin layer of legitimacy for various cynical and self-aware political forces that desire to use of Government force to reduce competition, ensure profitability over obsolete business models, and control the actions and lives of millions of people and hundreds of thousands of businesses to achieve those aims. blah blah blah.
It is really quite terrible.
On a side note:
http://mises.org/media/2434/What-Is-Fascism
I think that it's critical that all Americans understand that fascism is not just epithet.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 27, 2012 1:03 UTC (Mon) by dag- (subscriber, #30207) [Link]
Wouldn't it be stealing if you take the idea of someone else, and then implement and patent the implementation to make it hard for others to implement the same idea ?
Maybe we need another word for this, maybe *murder* is a better word. They *murdered* ideas they learned from someone else. Happy now ?
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 27, 2012 8:38 UTC (Mon) by blujay (guest, #39961) [Link]
No, it wouldn't be stealing--it would be immoral (the patenting of it), but not stealing. Ideas cannot be stolen--they can only be discovered, shared, or kept secret.
I think that "kidnapped" might be the most apt term for what you described.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 27, 2012 11:55 UTC (Mon) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link] Fun fact: the method you just described was patented by Halliburton.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 27, 2012 20:41 UTC (Mon) by karthik_s1 (subscriber, #60525) [Link]
I think that patent(if awarded) could be invalidated by showing prior art.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 3:06 UTC (Fri) by JoeF (guest, #4486) [Link]
That may be, but that doesn't mean other phones stole from the iPhone.
And in particular, prior art should invalidate patents. Case in point is the "slide-to-unlock" thing. Apple may be able to claim first-to-market, but they really should stop claiming Android was stolen from them.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 22:16 UTC (Fri) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]
They had the gall to claim speech based search was theres as well when Android had it years before Apple did. It seems that any feature Apple adds is immediately theres regardless of history. They are an arrogant company and point to a sincere problem with the patent system.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 8:04 UTC (Fri) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715) [Link]
Well most if not all of the stuff being talked about here does not really deserve to be called "invention".
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 11:50 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] There's always someone else that did it before, but there's always someone that made it happen for everybody else. That latter in this case is most certainly Jobs. Nope, that's Google. Jobs is like Edison. And I don't mean "idolized imaginary Edison", but the real one. Who "invented" (actually borrowed) lightbulb… and then spent years trying to stifle further development of it (in the case where real inventor was obvious Edison formed joint company). Who invented electricity distribution… and then spent the rest of his life trying to make sure noone else will do anything better (the last inefficient Edison's DC station was closed in XXI century!). Who invented motion pictures… and controlled them so much that industry quite literally run to the other side of the continent to avoid endless lawsuits (that's how Hollywood was formed and that's why it's on west coast, not on east one). P.S. It's ironic how easily Hollywood (which started as bunch of mass violators) forgot about it's roots - but that's separate history.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 13:08 UTC (Fri) by hadrons123 (guest, #72126) [Link]
I think you read the pirate bay and just mirrored it here.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MpmX...
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 14:12 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] History of Hollywood is not exactly a big secret, but I'm not talking about Hollywood here. This is just a side-note. I'm talking about inventors who use ideas of others then turn around and say "I want you to stop using our ideas". In the end they do more harm then good and I still don't understand where do them come from: do they really believe they have some god-given right to innovate at the expense of others or are they just greedy?
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 22:30 UTC (Fri) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]
Gotta love Edison and his craziness (yet still held up as the inventor everyone should aspire to be). He went out of his way to destroy Tesla, both professionally and personally such that Tesla had no choice but to sell his soul to Westinghouse (and end up penniless). Edison didn't want AC to succeed so badly he invented the electric chair and publicly electrocuted cats to try to stifle the adoption of AC distribution. Pretty much any field he got involved in he went out of his way to destroy the competition including personal attacks.
The similarity between Edison's actions and how Jobs approached things speaks volumes about how big of an asshole Jobs was and how destructive Jobs could be to markets and competition if given the chance.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 20:14 UTC (Fri) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link]
There's a quote in science: "A theory is named after the last person who failed to cite their predecessors."
So it is with inventions.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 20:19 UTC (Fri) by karim (subscriber, #114) [Link]
That's gold.
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 24, 2012 20:27 UTC (Fri) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link]
For the record, I read the quote in "Rationality for Mortals: How People Cope with Uncertainty (Evolution and Cognition)".
It's a horribly written book. Basically a bunch of conference papers thrown together. There are several interesting arguments and ideas, though. But it's a classic publish-and-forget book, not one where the author strove to refine his theories.
Stigler's law Posted Feb 24, 2012 21:45 UTC (Fri) by southey (subscriber, #9466) [Link] From Wikipedia: Stigler's lawList of examples
If Android is a "stolen product," then so was the iPhone (ars technica) Posted Feb 29, 2012 8:23 UTC (Wed) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> "A theory is named after the last person who failed to cite their predecessors."
I've noticed that the predecessors seem to often be from a different culture/language. I guess that makes the "failure" much easier to achieve.
Vaguely related: it looks like the legal power of US megacorps with their legions of lawyers and the USPTO their pet tends to stop at the Chinese border. Funny that.
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