> I said this before and will say again: toolkit-level network transparency can be experimented with today, whether X11 or Wayland is the display server, and it should yield superior performance, and have some other goodies: for instance, it could render the GUI according to user's locally defined GTK+ theme rather than whatever pixels the server wants to push (because server doesn't push pixels, it will push statements like 'add a button with these attributes inside that container, please').
That sounds nice in theory, but I doubt it'll work. For example, what if the client uses GTK+ version n, and the server only has version n-1 available?
Also, you'd need to run one server for Qt, one for GTK+, one for EFL etc. etc., that's going to be a nightmare.
What I'd like to see is a rendering server that allows clients to upload little programs that know how to, say, draw a button, and then in order to draw a button, they only have to tell the server to run that program they've uploaded before using such and such parameters. I think DisplayPostscript worked like that. That would at least get rid of the need to run multiple servers for the toolkits, as they could more or less define their own specialized protocol.
However, I'm not sure that'll work either. It would probably require rather substantial changes in the toolkits, and it would probably be hard to port existing theme engines etc. to such a new paradigm, at least if one wants to exploit this kind of technology to a significant degree. Also, we already have similar technology: JavaScript and Canvas/WebGL. GTK+ already features the Broadway backend which renders into a browser window, though I'm not sure how much work is actually done on the client or on the server side.
So clearly, this is a hard problem to solve.
Posted Feb 21, 2012 11:52 UTC (Tue) by alankila (subscriber, #47141)
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Yes, it is a hard problem to solve, especially if you want to solve it for all software there is... I'd personally settle for far less: it's enough to me that *one* reasonably good toolkit does it, especially if it's GTK+ or Qt: most software already exists for both of these toolkits, so you just have one more reason to avoid the worse one.
FOSDEM: The Wayland display server
Posted Feb 21, 2012 13:23 UTC (Tue) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
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I disagree with this. I'm a KDE user, yet I also use quite a few GTK+ applications because their Qt alternatives either don't exist or suck, for example wireshark, emacs and leksah. Considering this, a remote GUI that can't handle at least GTK+ and Qt would be next to useless in my opinion.
Also, you didn't explain how to solve the issue of differing GTK+ versions between the client and the server.
FOSDEM: The Wayland display server
Posted Mar 1, 2012 13:10 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
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For that matter, I still run one single Xt application: Emacs. That's because Gtk dumps core if its X session goes away, making the emacs server mostly useless: the bug for this has been open for years and appears unfixable. Now maybe this problem will vanish with Wayland (as it relates to Gtk keeping stuff on the X server but not keeping track of it so it can resend it if the X connection dies)... but maybe not. Demonstrably the Gtk hackers do not care about use cases like remotely running an application which maps multiple windows, then unmapping all the windows so you can suspend the machine on which the display is done.
Because, after all, saving power by suspending your machine when not in use while leaving your processes running on another machine so they can keep doing background jobs is a rare use case, unless you jam the word 'cloud' in there, whereupon it suddenly becomes immensely important. Or something.