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Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released
Hello all, We're releasing Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 today: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/releases/wayland-0.85.0.ta... http://wayland.freedesktop.org/releases/weston-0.85.0.tar.xz SHA1 checksums: 8114f244603a106fbf28ffd92e537acdd0b29a8b wayland-0.85.0.tar.xz 95db6a3f61c3c9f6e6f3a5d24323c1c3c0314e45 weston-0.85.0.tar.xz This is the first real release of Wayland and Weston. Wayland is the protocol and IPC mechanism while Weston is the reference compositor implementation. The 0.85 branch in both repositories is going to be protocol and interface stable. We have a series of protocol changes on the table before 1.0 but this branch marks a stable point before we jump into that. We may do more 0.85 releases down the road if there's interest and something sufficiently embarrassing shows up. Kristian (Log in to post comments)
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 18:29 UTC (Fri) by danielpf (subscriber, #4723) [Link]
Once again such an announcement is garbage for those with no clue what the hell Wayland and Weston may be.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 18:40 UTC (Fri) by gurulabs (subscriber, #10753) [Link]
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 19:34 UTC (Fri) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]
Is this directed at the LWN staff or the Wayland email message?
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 21:32 UTC (Fri) by danielpf (subscriber, #4723) [Link]
Both are responsible of what they publish.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 21:40 UTC (Fri) by Kit (guest, #55925) [Link]
The Wayland Dev's message was directed at the wayland-devel mailing list, anyone on there certainly is well aware of what Wayland is. It would be quite unfair to say that a simple release announcement, on a development mailing list, must include a description of what exactly the project is. It wouldn't really accomplish anything at all. Especially a project like Wayland, which is still quite a ways away from being all that relevant to people that aren't working on the Linux graphics stack (most of which are likely well aware of Wayland by this point).
LWN did, in their blurb, refer to Wayland as a 'display system', which should lead most people in the general direction of what Wayland is.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 23:20 UTC (Fri) by lambda (subscriber, #40735) [Link]
When announcing a new release of a piece of software, even if it's to a mailing list, it is useful to include at least a standard blurb about what it is, and and brief overview of what is new in this version (I would except software that pretty much everyone is expected to recognize, like the Linux kernel).
People quote release announcements, forward them to other lists, treat them as press releases, use them for summaries on aggregator sites, and the like. Having the essentials covered in your release announcement means that anyone who sees that message out of context will still get the information that they need, they won't have to go hunting in several other locations to figure out what you are talking about.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 0:16 UTC (Sun) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
Perhaps it is best viewed as a low-investiment high-payoff form of self promotion. An early development project of course does not need users, but it might garner mindshare and possibly developers?
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 22:25 UTC (Fri) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link]
Once again postings such as yours are complete garbage for those with a clue about what the hell Wayland and Weston is (or about how to operate a search engine, fwiw).
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 23:24 UTC (Fri) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] And your posting was non-garbage for...who exactly? Come on, I've asked you before to stop attacking other people like this.The original poster was right. Normally when I come across a release announcement without any background information, I just dump it; in this case, I thought it was important enough to post. I added "display system," but could really have done better. Live and learn.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 23:35 UTC (Fri) by stijn (subscriber, #570) [Link] The original poster may have been right, but Once again such an announcement is garbage for those with no clue what the hell certainly detracts from the message.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 10, 2012 23:36 UTC (Fri) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] True enough.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 13, 2012 3:02 UTC (Mon) by jmalcolm (guest, #8876) [Link]
I would rather you did not just dump it on this basis alone. That said, I do think that part of the value you could add would be to provide some minimal context (a link for example).
If you think it is newsworthy, I would like to hear about it.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 11, 2012 4:57 UTC (Sat) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link]
I think they must be related to Dracut ;)
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 11, 2012 23:16 UTC (Sat) by jensend (guest, #1385) [Link]
This isn't a TV news channel; there's a presumption around here that people are acquainted with the open-source world and the major projects out there. It's vastly preferable that LWN provide the core info rather than indulge people who are too lazy to self-educate (all it takes is a single google or wikipedia search) by wasting everybody elses' time with a bunch of hand-holding. The Wayland project is quite well known, and your claim that their release announcement is "garbage" because it doesn't play to your ignorance was rude, crude, and un-called-for.
Next we'll see people claiming they need a paragraph-long explanation of why they should care affixed to every announcement about the kernel, X.org, etc. That way lies madness.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 7:31 UTC (Sun) by andrel (subscriber, #5166) [Link] I don't know why you're paying for your subscription, but I'm paying for mine precisely because I do want some hand holding. That hand holding is the whole point of reading LWN instead of GMANE: Jon, Rebecca, and co identify which posts are important, boil them down into short summaries, and provide the context explaining why they are important.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 11:27 UTC (Sun) by danielpf (subscriber, #4723) [Link]
Let me first apologize to LWN audience if I used too sloopy wording, it was indeed counterproductive as my basic intention is not to content my emotional part but to improve the information efficiency at LWN.
Let us try to stay rational and think about the whole process. The number of people reading a given LWN message amounts to well a few 1000's. Of these I guess a minority knows about W&W and don't need or will wish a simple link/explanation/summary about W&W. But even if a majority knows about W&W and only 10% of readers get impatient like me, and need each to google to learn about the basics of W&W they will well need a few 10's of sec to satisfy their curiosity, instead of a fraction of sec to read a short summary. On the other hand the time for the editor to write a short summary may take, say 10 sec. The overall global gain in time and satisfaction is clearly vastly in favor of this little investement by the LWN editor.
What you are fearing, "paragraph-long explanation", would be indeed counterproductive if the time spend by the editor to produce such explanations would not even be gained by the readership. Too wordy texts are also bad as they tend to become a time loss for the general audience. So one can estimate when a news channel is too terse or too wordy. My guess is that LWN is far from an average TV channel. In general I find the level right, just occasionally it may be too terse like in this case.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 16, 2012 5:00 UTC (Thu) by rusty (✭ supporter ✭, #26) [Link]
> Once again such an announcement is garbage for those with no clue what the hell Wayland and Weston may be.
The curt description given ("the Wayland display system") is consistent with the other entries (LibreOffice and PyPy) on this page.
If you are suggesting that the LWN announcements should include a standard descriptive sentence for each project, your message was drowned out by the blaring noise of everyone's troll detector going off.
Cheers,
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 2:59 UTC (Sun) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
I wonder how much longer until we see a desktop with Wayland as its display server, and X as just another client. It looks like they're making steady progress. Maybe another year or so for the first experimental distros to take the plunge? Or have some already?
(I admit interest in Wayland, but I also admit I haven't been following /that/ closely.)
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 20:13 UTC (Sun) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
I think that it is still mostly unusable.
Once Wayland gets a fully functional X Windows networking support and is able to manage displays on the majority of video cards without the need for a XServer then it will be ready for a larger audience and application developers.
At that point we can start to expect OpenGL applications and a few Wayland native applications to demonstrate out Wayland is able to handle things that X11 Server isn't terribly good at.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 12, 2012 21:28 UTC (Sun) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
There'll probably never be X Windows networking support in Wayland. However, it is possible to run a rootless X-server _inside_ Wayland right now.
Wayland is maturing rapidly and it has the feel of a 'right' solution. It's simple and easy to understand and extend, unlike Xorg.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 13, 2012 23:23 UTC (Mon) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
> However, it is possible to run a rootless X-server _inside_ Wayland right
> now.
Which is fine and dandy until the toolkits used by the applications migrate to Wayland and can no longer work with X.
Network transparency is a core feature. If it's not there, Wayland is incomplete and unusable for me.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 14, 2012 7:51 UTC (Tue) by Chousuke (subscriber, #54562) [Link]
Unusable for you, perhaps, but you're in a very small minority. Network transparency is nice when you need it, but given that there are other options, it's far from a critical feature.
I have used X's networking capabilities a couple times, but when I as a user think about what Wayland needs before it's ready for prime time, network transparency doesn't even make the list.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 14, 2012 7:57 UTC (Tue) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
If someone would find a way to run a rootless wayland server and display it on an X11 server (some sort of proxy, or a special 'video driver' in Wayland so that the X11 <-> Wayland connection was a twp-way street rather than "we're compatible, as long as you let me be in charge" most of the objections that people are having would go away. The concern over network transparency would drop because people could run Wayland apps to a remote X11 display if Wayland doesn't develop it's own network protocol.
and before you ask why I don't do it, compatibility with existing stuff is primarily the responsibility of the newcomer.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 14, 2012 9:53 UTC (Tue) by VITTUIX-MAN (guest, #82895) [Link]
Special video driver?
Sounds awfully similar to what Xpra does. (http://xpra.org/) It makes use of X-server running dummy frame buffer and connects into it as compositor.
I don't see why the client must speak the same language as the remote location's native windowing system does. Poeple don't complain the Unix commandline doesn't do session management on its own ether, but instead use dutifully screen. They still have to have putty installed in Windows machines which ususally isn't, how does an xpra client (or a Wayland equivalent) make any big difference? Ether don't need admistrator privileges to run.
By the way -xpra approach makes rootlessness the default behavior too.
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 14, 2012 9:38 UTC (Tue) by ekj (guest, #1524) [Link]
Most people don't care, and don't use the networking-features in X.
Infact, from my experience, I would even say that most people who *DO* run graphical applications remotely, and want to display them locally - still don't care and don't use the networking-features in X.
Which is not surprising, because they're not very usable. Even something as kludgy and crappy as VNC, works an order of magnitude better, so why *should* anyone care ?
Wayland and Weston 0.85.0 released Posted Feb 14, 2012 20:57 UTC (Tue) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link] I log in on my workstation from a laptop and run my mail client there by typing claws-mail on the command line. VNC would require extra steps. Network speed is not a concern. Why should I care about alternatives to X network support?
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