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You've started it...You've started it...Posted Jan 29, 2012 21:34 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252)In reply to: The case for the /usr merge by sbergman27 Parent article: The case for the /usr merge
Anyway, a Google search on: Which looks like a disaster if you'll not compare it with similar search ALSA FTW! The pragmatic approach is often the best. Right. And my pragmatic approach is to close all bugs where some kind of non-standard configuration is used as INVALID. This reduces amount of testing required - which is practical for me. Systems with uninstalled PulseAudio most definitely fit the bill as far as sound is involved.
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You've started it... Posted Jan 29, 2012 21:40 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] And my pragmatic approach is to close all bugs where some kind of non-standard configuration is used as INVALID.Right. So in the end nobody but the developers can use the configuration options provided, because if they use them they can't report bugs or get them fixed. And then those configuration options get removed because they're unused. And then we look around at the non-configurable desert which our free platform has become and wonder when exactly we took this wrong turn.
You've started it... Posted Jan 30, 2012 9:56 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Why do you think someone took the wrong turn? Non-configurable desert is one description which tries to imply this is somehow bad. Uniform experience is another description for the same thing - and it's usually praised by reviewers... unless they themselves want to change something - and can not. I'm not saying all options are worthless (it'll be hypocritical for me to say so since I toggle quite a few knobs on new systems). But they should all earn the right to live. No exceptions. You must compare overhead the developer faces for given option with popularity of said option. If option is wildly popular then it must be supported even if it's quite painful for the developer. If it's trivial and does not require a lot of Q&A resources then it can be kept even if it's not all that popular. But if it's both not popular and painful - then it's better to make it go away.
You've started it... Posted Jan 29, 2012 22:05 UTC (Sun) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767) [Link]
"""
Which looks like a disaster if you'll not compare it with similar search
alsa "no sound"
which returns over 50 millions results.
44 million. But since PA depends upon the underlying sound system, if one's chances of getting sound working in Linux without PA are bad, their chances of getting it working with PA are far worse.
PA is the first time in the history of Linux that after the actual sound driver is working, the user still faces a major and long-standing hurdle in getting the sound server working. Sometimes I think desktop Linux has a deathwish. No, that's not right. At this point, in 2012, it's pretty certain that Desktop Linux has always had a deathwish. We never had a chance. We only kill the things we love.
You've started it... Posted Jan 30, 2012 9:49 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] PA is the first time in the history of Linux that after the actual sound driver is working, the user still faces a major and long-standing hurdle in getting the sound server working. Sometimes I think desktop Linux has a deathwish. Sorry, but you are wrong again. Try the aforementioned search with esd instead of pulseaudio or alsa - and you'll get more results then in pulseaudio case. The fact that you personally know how to debug and fix problems with esd and don't know how to do the same with pulseaudio says more about you then about pulseaudio or esd.
You've started it... Posted Jan 30, 2012 14:48 UTC (Mon) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
Even better than ESD, remember ARtS? Why have one sound server when you have have two incompatible ones both vying for access to a single, exclusive, sound output along with applications who try to use the sound output directly. Having one sound server rather than a bunch of incompatible ones fall in an out of fashion every few years is an improvement in and of itself, even if it was no better, which it is.
You've started it... Posted Jan 30, 2012 19:48 UTC (Mon) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767) [Link]
"The fact that you personally know how to debug and fix problems with esd and don't know how to do the same with pulseaudio says more about you then about pulseaudio or esd."
I only use a sound server when such functionality is useful. i.e. network transparency. (Though HelloWorld has mentioned another feature useful for some.)
You don't seem to understand that the sound server is dependent upon the underlying sound system on either the client or the server machine.
I've had less trouble (in fact, no trouble) with ESD. But I don't use any sound server when none is required.
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