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Sorry, but this is wrong. Dead wrong.

Sorry, but this is wrong. Dead wrong.

Posted Dec 11, 2011 11:07 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
In reply to: Sorry, but this is wrong. Dead wrong. by Cyberax
Parent article: Evolution of shells in Linux (developerWorks)

I'll agree that man is not a very nice documentation system, but it *is* one, so your claim that it does not exist is vacuous on its face.

PowerShell allows to embed documentation directly into objects and also structure it by parameters, methods, etc.
Ah. Like POD, doxygen, and similar systems, all of which can generate manpage output. i.e., dead heat here.
And there's nice "-online" switch that leads you directly into the TechNet article associated with tool, with Q&A and other additional functionality.
That's great -- if and only if Microsoft wrote the tool. Only useful in a software monoculture.
Can you make your scripts in your home directory have their documentation automatically be included and made searchable into the central help system?
Yes. Learn about apropos databases and MANPATH. Manpages can be stored absolutely anywhere (as can info pages).

Most of the rest of what you say is a combination of ignorance of what the Unix tools you discuss can actually do, and complaints that things are not acceptable because they're not just like PowerShell does them. We get that you like it, but we've all been through this parochial 'the newest system I just saw is the answer to everyone's prayers' phase, and, y'know? It's always wrong. There are limitations there: you're just not seeing them.


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Sorry, but this is wrong. Dead wrong.

Posted Dec 11, 2011 11:50 UTC (Sun) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

>I'll agree that man is not a very nice documentation system, but it *is* one, so your claim that it does not exist is vacuous on its face.

I'm claiming that it's not a GOOD system.

>Ah. Like POD, doxygen, and similar systems, all of which can generate manpage output. i.e., dead heat here.

So... How do I make documentation for my bash script (with all its options), make a man page, link it into the central system and all of it without doing anything more than simply declaring options?

And no, doxygen won't help you - it doesn't support bash (I'd actually tried to find an automatic documentation system for bash some time last year - there was none).

>That's great -- if and only if Microsoft wrote the tool. Only useful in a software monoculture.

That's easily adapted if tools' authors provide their own URLs (which they can do in PowerShell - VMWare has its own doc system, for example).

>Yes. Learn about apropos databases and MANPATH. Manpages can be stored absolutely anywhere (as can info pages).

I know perfectly well how most of Linux tools work. I know that one can maintain their own local man databases. And I also know perfectly well that almost nobody does, mostly because it's complicated and error-prone.

>Most of the rest of what you say is a combination of ignorance of what the Unix tools you discuss can actually do, and complaints that things are not acceptable because they're not just like PowerShell does them.

I know most of the standard Unix tools. I've built my own custom distributions from scratch (first time without the benefit of the LFS book) and support a network of embedded devices. I've been using Linux on my desktops since 90-s and can recollect all the steps that have been taken to make Linux to be at least possible to use on desktop.

A lot of these steps involved bashing at least some old Unix-heads with spiked hammers: udev, HAL, KMS, dbus to name a few. Oh, and the whole 'Android' thingie. Now the same thing repeats with pulseaudio, systemd and journald.

>We get that you like it, but we've all been through this parochial 'the newest system I just saw is the answer to everyone's prayers' phase, and, y'know? It's always wrong. There are limitations there: you're just not seeing them.

Some things do solve all the (existing) problems. Because they are designed to solve them.

PowerShell is one such example. It's designed to be a better shell than text-based shells and it excels at it. It's not yet as polished as bash/zsh but it's getting better with each new release.

Of course, PowerShell has limitations and a set of new problems, but so does bash/zsh. And limitations of bash/zsh are MUCH more constricting.

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