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Quotes of the weekQuotes of the weekPosted Dec 1, 2011 22:16 UTC (Thu) by geuder (subscriber, #62854)Parent article: Quotes of the week
How many users are able to configure their own kernel? Is it realistic to assume that the number will grow in future? Does Linus want to reduce the number of Linux users even further? At least on the desktop we are a often neglected minority already. The quote might be taken out of context, but I have serious trouble to understand what he wants to achieve here.
Of course distro kernels are bloated from each indivual machine's poimt of view. But what's the alternative? Sounds a bit like the old argument that compilers are evil, because good assembler progrmmers can produce slimmer code.
If the kernel community were serios about this they would need to develop some autoconfiguration + automatic build type of "mega JIT" system, so the naive user could get his custom kernel built and even rebuilt later on the fly. Maybe not completely infeasible, but still lightyears from reality. And as I wrote, I don't get the point.
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Quotes of the week Posted Dec 1, 2011 22:35 UTC (Thu) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
It does not seem infeasible to compile and load a driver whenever a new device is detected or feature accessed for the first time. A bit slow, but still faster than downloading and installing an (often bloated) Windows driver.
Then, a full kernel compilation starts in the background. On the next boot a module-less kernel boots again.
All this looks technically feasible but, why the effort? Which problem would this solve?
Nothing because you've ignored the problems with modules in first place... Posted Dec 2, 2011 8:32 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] The problem with modules are the ability to insert arbitrary code in "ring 0" core. This is security risk. They also make debugging harder because code in memory may differ from code in kernel image. You solution throws the child with the bathwater: you have solution which still have all the problems of system with a lot of modules and it suffers from problems of module-less system. Quite an achievement, I'd say...
Nothing because you've ignored the problems with modules in first place... Posted Dec 2, 2011 8:48 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
Having personal problems lately? Wanna share?
Nothing because you've ignored the problems with modules in first place... Posted Dec 4, 2011 1:38 UTC (Sun) by mab (subscriber, #314) [Link]
Maybe we need some sort of micro kernel :)
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 2, 2011 22:01 UTC (Fri) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
It'd help solve the problem of extended uptime every time you plug in some new gadget your computer hadn't seen yet. Great for users nostalgic for Windows.
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 2, 2011 22:04 UTC (Fri) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
To make the experience complete, though, it should require you to have the driver source on a CD (or CD-R), complete with autorun crapware and needless splash screens. (Disable-able, but only if you're good with gconf, of course.)
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 2, 2011 23:33 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Oh, come on. How often do you *buy* new gadgets?
Now, how often do new -stable kernels come out?
Reboots for new gadgetry would be a small proportion of the total number of reboots you have to do anyway.
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 3, 2011 15:38 UTC (Sat) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
Really?
I've plugged at least three new (as in, this computer hadn't seen them before) gadgets since my last reboot 227 days ago. (TASCAM external ADC, a TI DSP EVM and a USB-to-serial cable.) And those are just the three I remember. I don't remember if I plugged my wife's phone in or not, for example. One of these days, I'll be moving the scanner over to my computer, and I know my machine hasn't seen it before.
I try to reboot at most 1 - 2 times a year at most, once my system's stable.
And it doesn't have to be that you bought the gadget new. It has to be a new-to-this-computer gadget that doesn't have the appropriate driver. "Hey Mom, before you leave, can I grab that photo you took of the two of us off your camera?" *plugs it in* "One moment please. Now reboot." If I happen to upgrade before the next time she visits... am I up for another such reboot?
I guess that brings up a second question: Would you retain the list of drivers you've "faulted in" so that the next time a vendor sends you a security patch, or the next time you upgrade your OS, you don't have to re-fault in all your gadgets? And is there an option for a batch mode? "Thank you for installing LatestShinyDistro overtop of LostItsLustre Distro. Find everything you own that you'll want to hot-plug into a USB port, and I'll go build you a proper kernel. Press enter when done." Uh, no.
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 4, 2011 0:55 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
How can you be rebooting that rarely without leaving great big gaping security holes?
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 4, 2011 2:07 UTC (Sun) by jzbiciak (✭ supporter ✭, #5246) [Link]
Well, it's on a private network behind a firewall, with only one port open to the world running an up-to-date sshd. (I do regularly compile the latest updates.) There are no ports forwarded from the firewall to this machine. I have two user accounts on this machine: mine and my wife's, and currently my wife's account doesn't have a valid password set, and so is disabled.
I trust everyone that uses my private network (my wife and a couple friends).
Sure, someone *could* try to hack my WiFi and then try to find a remote root vulnerability that doesn't require an open port, and then try to guess my 8 character randomly generated alphanumeric password, but really, I'm not too worried about this machine.
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 3, 2011 18:31 UTC (Sat) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]
Who said anything about buying new gadgets?
Those of us with friends and colleagues often have requests to plug in random bits of equipment for some quick something-er-other. Having to wait for a recompile and a reboot certainly would make people "nostalgic" for Windows (which does not require that kind of crap, hasn't for many many years, and only the odd driver with an idiotic installer script even asks the user to consider rebooting these days).
Quotes of the week Posted Dec 8, 2011 16:48 UTC (Thu) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]
>Windows (which does not require that kind of crap, hasn't for many many years, and only the odd driver with an idiotic installer script even asks the user to consider rebooting these days)
In fact, Windows does rather better than Linux does in this regard in that it's possible to replace the graphics driver for a running system with little more than a quick flicker.
In Linux you *still* need to restart X, which in practical terms is not much different for the desktop user than rebooting.
(I'm hoping dynamic reconfiguration is something that Wayland will improve upon, if it really gets off the ground)
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