|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

EU software patent vote delayed

From:  Associazione software libero <PR@softwarelibero.it>
To:  Annunci dell'Associazione Software Libero <annunci@softwarelibero.it>
Subject:  Incontro / conferenza stampa RINVIATA al 12 settembre
Date:  Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:05:15 +0200
Cc:  Associazione software libero <PR@softwarelibero.it>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

COMUNICATO STAMPA

	INCONTRO / CONFERENZA STAMPA CONTRO I BREVETTI SOFTWARE
			RINVIATA al 12 SETTEMBRE


La Conferenza  dei Segretari Generali  del Parlamento europeo  ha deciso
qualche  ora fa  di  spostare la  discussione  ed il  voto sul  rapporto
McCarthy dalla  data inzialmente prevista del 1°  settembre alla seconda
sessione  di  settembre  (22  -  25 settembre);  la  data  esatta  verrà
stabilita la settimana prossima a Strasburgo.

Questo è un successo per gli  sforzi di lobby della FFII (Foundation for
a Free Information  Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) contro il rapporto
di McCarthy sulla brevettabilità del software, sforzi che noi appoggiamo
ed invitiamo a sostenere nei modi descritti sul sito della FFII.


  Invitiamo le imprese italiane a far sentire la propria voce inviando
  un  fax indirizzato  ai  parlamentari europei,  come descritto  alla
  pagina http://swpat.xsec.it/.


  Invitiamo  i  parlamentari  europei  a far  propri  gli  emendamenti
  proposti dalla FFII,  che sono elencati e descritti  in dettaglio ad
  http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream.


Allo  scopo  di  diffondere  la  conoscenza del  problema  dei  brevetti
software,  il  Gruppo radicale  al  Parlamento  europeo,  il CDTI  (Club
Dirigenti Tecnologie dell'Informazione) e l'Associazione software libero
invitano cittadini  e imprese attive  ad ogni titolo nello  sviluppo del
software, libero o  meno, all'incontro / conferenza stampa  che si terrà
presso l'ufficio del Parlamento europeo  a Roma, in via IV novembre 149,
alle 10.30.

La data della conferenza, inizialmente stabilita per domani 29 agosto, è
ora RINVIATA DI DUE SETTIMANE, al giorno 12 settembre.

L'evento è mirato  a sensibilizzare la stampa ed  i parlamentari europei
circa i pericoli della  direttiva McCarthy sui brevetti software europei
e verrà diffuso da Radio radicale.

Maggiori  informazioni sui  brevetti software  in Europa  nel comunicato
stampa      (http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml)     emesso
dall'Associazione software libero.

Il  programma  dell'incontro   sarà  pubblicato  appena  disponibile  su
http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml, di seguito al testo del
presente annuncio.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/>

iD8DBQE/TgjJpTA1sien860RAgvkAJ0cGsF75na3Q7N8Vak1NORcqBbBzgCdE5aB
l6/qaLZZMPQs42pxfC0IKKM=
=Lsjb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



to post comments

More info

Posted Aug 28, 2003 16:03 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] (4 responses)

I've talked the European Parliment Office.

The McCarthy report has been withdrawn. This happens when a report is decided to be overly contraversial, or when too many amendments are requested.

The report will go back to the committee stage. They'll have to come up with something that infuriates fewer people. It will then return to the plenary (main vote), on either Sept 22nd, or Oct 8th. (October being more likely)

This may have been decided due to the protest at the European Parliament in Brussels yesterday (27th). Either way, it's great news.

Ciaran O'Riordan

The community CAN make a difference

Posted Aug 28, 2003 18:04 UTC (Thu) by dwalters (guest, #4207) [Link] (1 responses)

This shows that we CAN make a difference when we follow through with actions. But let's not get complacent. We have to see what the committee comes up with next.

If it is legislation that harminizes Europe by re-affirming and clarifying the exclusion of "programs for computers" in the European Patent Convention of 1973, then it will be welcome.

The community CAN make a difference

Posted Aug 28, 2003 21:16 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

> let's not get complacent. We have to see what the committee comes up

:) isn't that a contradiction?
Rather than wait and see what they come up with, I think we should get to work on the committee.

JURI produced a FAQ about the directive:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/indprop/comp/02-32.htm

It's all lies.

Arlene McCarthy is trying to convince the MEPs that this directive doesn't change much really. She implys that we are just ignorant protesters. We must show the MEPs that we are well informed, capable citizens, worth listening to. (not just frightened sheep following leaders with agendas)

The committee (JURI) endorsed the original directive by a 64% majority. This is an unusually small majority for a committee vote, it's reasonable to think we can swing a few committee members and get a directive we really want.

Ciaran O'Riordan

Thanks!

Posted Aug 28, 2003 20:03 UTC (Thu) by Peter (guest, #1127) [Link]

Very good news - many thanks to all of you in Europe staying active on this one.

(Being a stupid, lazy American, I didn't get involved. For one thing it's a bit unclear what I could have done anyway. I don't control a web site to paint black, etc.)

Vote in plenary delayed, but McCarthy report kept

Posted Aug 29, 2003 17:02 UTC (Fri) by xdrudis (guest, #14577) [Link]

I'm afraid there may have been some confusion here. At least I got confirmation from 4 MEP assitants that the JURI report on the software patents directive has not ben withdrawn or returned to JURI. It will still be voted in plenary, only at a later date (22.9.2003 or late, not yet decided).

I guess it may be a misunderstanding when somebody told somebody else it was withdrawn _from next monday agenda_ and then somebody informed about report withdrawal thinking they meant it was returned to JURI or something.

At least I wanted to warn of different sources agreeing in a different story.
Maybe somebody can check again with the EP Office in Ireland or any other
EP source.

These news of JURI report withdrawal have spread through many weblogs and news sites. I'm afraid people may think the situation is somehow better than it really is.

EU software patent vote delayed

Posted Aug 28, 2003 19:52 UTC (Thu) by job (guest, #670) [Link]

Oh, joy! A small win for democracy!

Here's an automated translation

Posted Aug 28, 2003 20:44 UTC (Thu) by dwheeler (guest, #1216) [Link] (2 responses)

Here's a (bad) translation from Italian to English using Google's translation tools, lightly formatted for clarity. The FFII, at least, believes that this rescheduling has occurred specifically due to its lobbying. If so, that's great news - somehow the majority managed to get themselves heard, in spite of a committee that ignored the people. I look forward to better translations, but it's possible to get the sense of the article from this bad translation.


PRESS ENCOUNTER/PRESS CONFERENCE AGAINST the LICENCES SOFTWARE SENT BACK to the 12 SEPTEMBER the Conference of the Secretaries Generates them of the European Parliament has decided some hour ago to move the argument and the ballot on the McCarthy relationship from the date inzialmente previewed of 1° the september to the second session of september (22 - 25 september); the exact date will come established the next week to Strasburgo.

This is happening for the efforts of lobby of the FFII (Foundation for to Free Information Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) against the relationship of McCarthy on the brevettabilità of the software, efforts that we support and invite to support in the ways described on the situated one of the FFII.

We invite the Italian enterprises to make to feel the own voice sending a fax addressed to the European parliamentarians, like described to the page http://swpat.xsec.it/. We invite the European parliamentarians to make the amendments proposals from the FFII own, that they are lists and described to you in detail to http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream .

In order to diffuse the acquaintance of the problem of the licences software, the radical Group to the European Parliament, the CDTI (Managing Clubs Technologies of the Information) and the Association free software less invite citizens and active enterprises to every tito it in the development of the software, free or, to the encounter/press conference that will be kept near the office of the European Parliament to Rome, in via IV November 149, to the 10.30.

The date of the conference, initially established in order tomorrow 29 August, is SENT BACK hour OF TWO WEEKS, to day 12 september. The event is aimed sensibilizzare the European press and parliamentarians approximately the dangers of the McCarthy directive on the European licences software and will come diffused from radical Radio. Greater information on the licences software in Europe in the official notice print ( http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml ) emitted from the Association free software. The program of the encounter will be published hardly available on http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml , of continuation to the text of the present announcement.

Here's an automated translation

Posted Aug 28, 2003 21:46 UTC (Thu) by ecureuil (guest, #3507) [Link]

For those readers who are not aware of the complexity of European
Politics, the Radical Party is a small center party mainly Italian. They
have not enough deputies in the European Parliament to form a group. The
only thing radical in them is their name and maybe their
anti-clericalism.

Here's an automated translation

Posted Aug 30, 2003 9:57 UTC (Sat) by bockman (guest, #3650) [Link]

Google made a good enough job. Here is the same translation, with some obvious fixes.

PRESS ENCOUNTER/PRESS CONFERENCE AGAINST the LICENCES SOFTWARE SENT BACK TO THE 12 SEPTEMBER.

The Conference of the Eureopean Parliament General Secretaries has decided some hour ago to move the debate and the vote on the McCarthy report from the initially planned date of September 1 to the second session of september (22 - 25 september); the exact date will be established the next week in Strasburg,.

This is a success for the lobby efforts of the FFII (Foundation for to Free Information Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) against the report of McCarthy on the suitability of software patents, efforts that we support and invite to support in the ways described on the site of the FFII.

We invite the Italian enterprises to let hear their voice sending a fax addressed to the European parliamentarians, as described at the page http://swpat.xsec.it/. We invite the European parliamentarians to endorse the amendments proposed from the the FFII, that are listed and described to you in detail at http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream

In order to diffuse the knowledge of the problem on software licences, the radical Group to the European Parliament, the CDTI (Managing Clubs Technologies of the Information) and the Association for the Free Software invite citizens and enterprises, regardless of their involvment with free software development, to the encounter/press conference that will be kept at the office of the European Parliament to Rome, in via IV November 149, at 10.30.
The date of the conference, initially established for tomorrow August 29, is POSTPONED OF TWO WEEKS, to September 12. The event is aimed to make the European press and parliamentarians aware of the dangers of the McCarthy directive on the European software licences and will be broadcasted by Radio Radicale. More information on the software licences in Europe in the official press notice ( http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml ) emitted from the Association for the Free Software. The program of the encounter will be published as soon as available on http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml , after the text of the present announce.

Congrats Europeans!

Posted Aug 29, 2003 0:16 UTC (Fri) by dbhost (guest, #3461) [Link] (3 responses)

Trust me on this (an American that suffers through an oppressive copyright / patent system), you MUST do whatever it takes to keep software patents from being legal in Europe. Your freedom is at stake!

Congrats Europeans!

Posted Aug 29, 2003 11:13 UTC (Fri) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link] (1 responses)

The problem is that we already have lots of software patents here :(

Congrats Europeans!

Posted Aug 29, 2003 23:19 UTC (Fri) by Carl (guest, #824) [Link]

The problem is that we already have lots of software patents here :(

But that is precisely the point! The European Patent Office (EPO) has illegally granted these patents against the letter and spirit of the current law. National judges in several European countries have criticised the EPO's practise and refused to recognize these patents as valid. Now this commission wants to "harmonize" the national laws to force the different countries to adopt laws which (retroactively) make these patents legal.

By casting this as a simple law harmonization issue the Legal Affairs Committe is trying to make this a small issue and saving the EPO some embarrassment when the big companies (Microsoft and IBM are the biggest holders of these illegal patents) find out that they have worthless papers.

But it is a really big change since currently "discoveries, scientific theories, mathematical methods, aesthetic creations, schemes, rules and methods for performing mental acts, playing games or doing business, programs for computers, and presentations of information" are all clearly not patentable according to Art 52 of the European Patent Convention. The committee tries to just remove these clear exceptions and introduce some (ill formulated) new exception rules which are more in line with what the EPO has been doing but which judges just don't accept! (http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/epc52/index.en.html)

BTW I thought the "Test Suite" that the ffii/eurolinux people came up with was pretty good: http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/testsuite/index.en.html and http://www.ffii.org/proj/kunst/swpat/pamflet/europarl03-testbed.en.pdf It presents some of these patents that the EPO has illegally granted in the past and asks some simple questions be answered:

  • Is this an algorithm?
  • Is this a business method?
  • Is there a "technical contribution"?
  • Should this innovation be patentable subject matter?
  • Does your favorite proposal clearly say so?
And very important:
  • Would any judge reach the same conclusions?
  • Where are areas of incertainty?

Hopefully now that the proposal seem to be redrafted someone will take the time to answer those questions so a real decission on whether this "clearification" of the European Patent Convention is a good idea or not.

Congrats Europeans!

Posted Aug 29, 2003 14:42 UTC (Fri) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link]

You are right but it would help a great deal if you could take a little time to explain the problems you are experiencing in the US to some MEPs.

In general MEPs think the US is doing better than us (the EU) at software (IBM, Microsoft, Sun) and jumps to the essentially false conclusion that we must have software Patents here to catch up. The fact that Microsoft's dominance has nothing to do with patents is glossed-over. The increasing complaints coming from the US about the system don't seem to be sinking in yet.

Hard facts from real American developers/business owners about the badness of swpats would be very useful amunition. Who to send such missives to? If you send them to me I'll try to get them sent somewhere useful. The FFII http://swpats.ffii.org/ maintain lists of who to hassle at the EU, and would love any contributions you can make. Sending them to Arlene McArthy is nominally the correct place but I suspect she is not persuadable.

Sad story in Oz

Posted Aug 29, 2003 6:44 UTC (Fri) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link] (3 responses)

I've checked with IP Australia and they pointed me to a PDF on their site that explains how patents are granted for software down under.

http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/pdfs/patents/specific/computer.pdf

Basically, you can come up with some convoluted text, show that it's new, inventive, practical and useful and you get yourself a patent on computer software. The examples in the text are very lame, especially the e-commerce one. If what they are describing there as a patent is truly patentable, then I've encountered many such things while looking through open source code, namely Apache and Tomcat. And yet, it would never occur to me that someone could have an exclusive right to code that. There simply isn't enough justification for something like that to become exclusive, because it's part of every programmer's day to day work.

Normally, patents last for 20 years, unless you apply for the "innovation patent" which last 8 years.

I guess we're too late down here...

Sad story in Oz

Posted Aug 29, 2003 7:14 UTC (Fri) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

For instance:

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=5&appnum=200232865

How can something like that be a patent? It is beyond ridiculous. This took me about 10 minutes to find...

Sad story in Oz

Posted Aug 29, 2003 13:01 UTC (Fri) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link] (1 responses)

Oh boy, I've searched some more and found some really idiotic examples. You can take a look at it here:

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=7&appnum=200232790

The above is a patent application by Motorola. Basically, some device checks its own id and then downloads the software for itself. How very inventive! They have applied for this patent in November 2001 internationally. I just can't believe that this is not some kind of a joke.

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry. I've never searched the actual patent databases before, but in a just few simple attempts I've been able to identify something that's completely bogus and it wouldn't qualify as a high school work, let alone an invention.

Another funny one is a cluster:

http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=8&appnum=200232411

Pay attention to the language. Convoluted like you wouldn't believe it.

Really sad... I think I'll be sending some letters to the Australian Patent Office soon....

Sad story in Oz

Posted Aug 29, 2003 14:32 UTC (Fri) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link]

Scary isn't it?

Looking at real patents is a very good way to get a handle on why anyone who writes software thinks the system is hopelessly broken.

The thing you have to get your head round is why large sections of society (especially anyone who actually works in this area) don't see a problem.

We had a meeting about this in Cambridge on Wed 27th which included patent professionals and had as speaker the official (Robert Bray) who was responsible for drawing up the Current EU proposal on behalf of Arlene McArthy. He's a reasonable chap and appears to sincerely believe that the directive is simply normalising the status quo, and thus will not do any harm. That's actually quite true, but this rather assumes that the status quo is acceptable. Any developer looking at a few Software Patents, whether in Australia or the EU, will find that it is not. The other point made is that passing this directive would 'remove legal uncertainty'. The JURI committee paint this as a good thing, but from our point of view it's not, as the uncertainty is the only thing stopping copanies trying to enforce their laugable patents in the EU.

However if we get this directive stopped that does nothing to stop the patent inflation that has been going on in the national courts (primarily of Germany and the UK) for years. They will continue to patent all sorts of rubbish. Bray said that they couldn't be stricter in the Directive than current case-law as it would simply be overturned. We have to strongly oppose that idea and insist that the EU can and does set policy in this area and must protect software _from_ patents and get us back towards the 'computer programs are not patentable' idea of the 1970s.

Anyone who already works with Patents or in an idustry subject to them can't understand what the problem is. They are so used to the idea of tying up every concept into private ownership that they see that as the natural way the world works, and describe software as 'an anomaly, that needs to join the real world'. The fact that software exists very happily with Copyright protection and adding patent protection will be a huge brake on innovation doesn't resonate with them. They simply don't believe it and can't see why software should get an 'exception' from patent 'protection' when hardware doesn't (and it's true that it's very hard to draw a legal line between them these days).

You have to remember to keep pressing the point that it is not a matter of 'normalising' the treatment of software. It has to be shown that there is a public benefit in giving state monopolies for software ideas - all the economic evidence and most of the evidence from people in the field is that it won't help (indeed it could easily be a disaster).

On the other hand Free Software has a huge advantage which is not often mentioned - everything we do is published straight away. That can be a powerful tool for showing that someone's patent is not valid because it wasn't new. The problem is that lawyers tend to only consider other patents when deciding if a patent is new, not code, and the costs can be prohibitive. Nevertheless we do have an advantage - as the body of free software accumulates it ought to be harder and harder for people to patent obvious things without there being loads of already-published code that already does it, or at least harder and harder to actually enforce their crappy patents. Indeed one thing that would hugely imporve the system would be if all applications were circulated to a distributed body of geeks who could check for prior art. It impossible for any Patent examiner to be an expert in all software fields - you need a distributed system. The incentive for doing this is that if we don't we may end up unable to write any code without infringing.

Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws

Posted Aug 29, 2003 6:47 UTC (Fri) by ookami (guest, #14555) [Link] (2 responses)

There is some trouble ahead and already touching the community.
Have a look at this site
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
maintained by Klaus Knopper, the inventer of Knoppix, a Linux distribution run from CD only. He closed his site because of the upcoming patent laws, that might force him to pay licence fees for his product.

People, you have to stand up.

Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws

Posted Aug 29, 2003 9:06 UTC (Fri) by erich (guest, #7127) [Link] (1 responses)

Knoppix ist just as closed down as gimp.org, gnome.org and kde.org have been. ;)
and my sites still are. There is always a hidden link to enter the real page.
Klaus has joined the online protest, just as many others have.
Just have a look at www.debian.org ;)
It would be very good if some companies such as SuSE would do a press release doubting the use of software patents. Well, if IBM would - being probably one of the biggest patent holders - state that software being not patentable in europe is "ok for them", they would do all of us a great favour...

The green party (at least the german representees) stated to me that they will vote against this patent resolution.
the CDUCSU fraction (german conservatives) states that they support the resolution (although they always claim they are supporting small and medium sized companies and innovation, they usually do support the real big companies, which probably pay money to them. :-( )
the Social Democrats - where McCarthy belongs to - are kind of divided. I got a reply from a german member of that group who is personally in disfavour of swpats, and said that there is a lot of dissense.

Well, no wonder i favour the greens... ;)

Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws

Posted Aug 29, 2003 11:19 UTC (Fri) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link]

Good luck in getting IBM to support us in this case. Since IBM is *the* biggest patent holder, they are the ones that got most to win with this.

IBM may be a big supporter of Linux, but as long as they are pro software patents, they don't get positive remarks in my book!


Copyright © 2003, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds