EU software patent vote delayed
From: | Associazione software libero <PR@softwarelibero.it> | |
To: | Annunci dell'Associazione Software Libero <annunci@softwarelibero.it> | |
Subject: | Incontro / conferenza stampa RINVIATA al 12 settembre | |
Date: | Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:05:15 +0200 | |
Cc: | Associazione software libero <PR@softwarelibero.it> |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 COMUNICATO STAMPA INCONTRO / CONFERENZA STAMPA CONTRO I BREVETTI SOFTWARE RINVIATA al 12 SETTEMBRE La Conferenza dei Segretari Generali del Parlamento europeo ha deciso qualche ora fa di spostare la discussione ed il voto sul rapporto McCarthy dalla data inzialmente prevista del 1° settembre alla seconda sessione di settembre (22 - 25 settembre); la data esatta verrà stabilita la settimana prossima a Strasburgo. Questo è un successo per gli sforzi di lobby della FFII (Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) contro il rapporto di McCarthy sulla brevettabilità del software, sforzi che noi appoggiamo ed invitiamo a sostenere nei modi descritti sul sito della FFII. Invitiamo le imprese italiane a far sentire la propria voce inviando un fax indirizzato ai parlamentari europei, come descritto alla pagina http://swpat.xsec.it/. Invitiamo i parlamentari europei a far propri gli emendamenti proposti dalla FFII, che sono elencati e descritti in dettaglio ad http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream. Allo scopo di diffondere la conoscenza del problema dei brevetti software, il Gruppo radicale al Parlamento europeo, il CDTI (Club Dirigenti Tecnologie dell'Informazione) e l'Associazione software libero invitano cittadini e imprese attive ad ogni titolo nello sviluppo del software, libero o meno, all'incontro / conferenza stampa che si terrà presso l'ufficio del Parlamento europeo a Roma, in via IV novembre 149, alle 10.30. La data della conferenza, inizialmente stabilita per domani 29 agosto, è ora RINVIATA DI DUE SETTIMANE, al giorno 12 settembre. L'evento è mirato a sensibilizzare la stampa ed i parlamentari europei circa i pericoli della direttiva McCarthy sui brevetti software europei e verrà diffuso da Radio radicale. Maggiori informazioni sui brevetti software in Europa nel comunicato stampa (http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml) emesso dall'Associazione software libero. Il programma dell'incontro sarà pubblicato appena disponibile su http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml, di seguito al testo del presente annuncio. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQE/TgjJpTA1sien860RAgvkAJ0cGsF75na3Q7N8Vak1NORcqBbBzgCdE5aB l6/qaLZZMPQs42pxfC0IKKM= =Lsjb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Posted Aug 28, 2003 16:03 UTC (Thu)
by coriordan (guest, #7544)
[Link] (4 responses)
The McCarthy report has been withdrawn. This happens when a report is decided to be overly contraversial, or when too many amendments are requested. The report will go back to the committee stage. They'll have to come up with something that infuriates fewer people. It will then return to the plenary (main vote), on either Sept 22nd, or Oct 8th. (October being more likely) This may have been decided due to the protest at the European Parliament in Brussels yesterday (27th). Either way, it's great news. Ciaran O'Riordan
Posted Aug 28, 2003 18:04 UTC (Thu)
by dwalters (guest, #4207)
[Link] (1 responses)
If it is legislation that harminizes Europe by re-affirming and clarifying the exclusion of "programs for computers" in the European Patent Convention of 1973, then it will be welcome.
Posted Aug 28, 2003 21:16 UTC (Thu)
by coriordan (guest, #7544)
[Link]
:) isn't that a contradiction? JURI produced a FAQ about the directive: It's all lies. Arlene McCarthy is trying to convince the MEPs that this directive doesn't change much really. She implys that we are just ignorant protesters. We must show the MEPs that we are well informed, capable citizens, worth listening to. (not just frightened sheep following leaders with agendas) The committee (JURI) endorsed the original directive by a 64% majority. This is an unusually small majority for a committee vote, it's reasonable to think we can swing a few committee members and get a directive we really want. Ciaran O'Riordan
Posted Aug 28, 2003 20:03 UTC (Thu)
by Peter (guest, #1127)
[Link]
Very good news - many thanks to all of you in Europe staying active on this one. (Being a stupid, lazy American, I didn't get involved. For one thing it's a bit unclear what I could have done anyway. I don't control a web site to paint black, etc.)
Posted Aug 29, 2003 17:02 UTC (Fri)
by xdrudis (guest, #14577)
[Link]
I guess it may be a misunderstanding when somebody told somebody else it was withdrawn _from next monday agenda_ and then somebody informed about report withdrawal thinking they meant it was returned to JURI or something. At least I wanted to warn of different sources agreeing in a different story. These news of JURI report withdrawal have spread through many weblogs and news sites. I'm afraid people may think the situation is somehow better than it really is.
Posted Aug 28, 2003 19:52 UTC (Thu)
by job (guest, #670)
[Link]
Posted Aug 28, 2003 20:44 UTC (Thu)
by dwheeler (guest, #1216)
[Link] (2 responses)
PRESS ENCOUNTER/PRESS CONFERENCE AGAINST the LICENCES SOFTWARE SENT BACK to the 12 SEPTEMBER the Conference of the Secretaries Generates them of the European Parliament has decided some hour ago to move the argument and the ballot on the McCarthy relationship from the date inzialmente previewed of 1° the september to the second session of september (22 - 25 september); the exact date will come established the next week to Strasburgo.
This is happening for the efforts of lobby of the FFII (Foundation for to Free Information Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) against the relationship of McCarthy on the brevettabilità of the software, efforts that we support and invite to support in the ways described on the situated one of the FFII.
We invite the Italian enterprises to make to feel the own voice sending a fax addressed to the European parliamentarians, like described to the page http://swpat.xsec.it/. We invite the European parliamentarians to make the amendments proposals from the FFII own, that they are lists and described to you in detail to http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream .
In order to diffuse the acquaintance of the problem of the licences software, the radical Group to the European Parliament, the CDTI (Managing Clubs Technologies of the Information) and the Association free software less invite citizens and active enterprises to every tito it in the development of the software, free or, to the encounter/press conference that will be kept near the office of the European Parliament to Rome, in via IV November 149, to the 10.30.
The date of the conference, initially established in order tomorrow 29 August, is SENT BACK hour OF TWO WEEKS, to day 12 september. The event is aimed sensibilizzare the European press and parliamentarians approximately the dangers of the McCarthy directive on the European licences software and will come diffused from radical Radio. Greater information on the licences software in Europe in the official notice print ( http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml ) emitted from the Association free software. The program of the encounter will be published hardly available on http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml , of continuation to the text of the present announcement.
Posted Aug 28, 2003 21:46 UTC (Thu)
by ecureuil (guest, #3507)
[Link]
Posted Aug 30, 2003 9:57 UTC (Sat)
by bockman (guest, #3650)
[Link]
The Conference of the Eureopean Parliament General Secretaries has decided some hour ago to move the debate and the vote on the McCarthy report from the initially planned date of September 1 to the second session of september (22 - 25 september); the exact date will be established the next week in Strasburg,.
This is a success for the lobby efforts of the FFII (Foundation for to Free Information Infrastructure, http://ffii.org/) against the report of McCarthy on the suitability of software patents, efforts that we support and invite to support in the ways described on the site of the FFII.
We invite the Italian enterprises to let hear their voice sending a fax addressed to the European parliamentarians, as described at the page http://swpat.xsec.it/. We invite the European parliamentarians to endorse the amendments proposed from the the FFII, that are listed and described to you in detail at http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/prop/#pream
In order to diffuse the knowledge of the problem on software licences, the radical Group to the European Parliament, the CDTI (Managing Clubs Technologies of the Information) and the Association for the Free Software invite citizens and enterprises, regardless of their involvment with free software development, to the encounter/press conference that will be kept at the office of the European Parliament to Rome, in via IV November 149, at 10.30.
Posted Aug 29, 2003 0:16 UTC (Fri)
by dbhost (guest, #3461)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Aug 29, 2003 11:13 UTC (Fri)
by pointwood (guest, #2814)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 29, 2003 23:19 UTC (Fri)
by Carl (guest, #824)
[Link]
But that is precisely the point! The European Patent Office (EPO) has illegally granted these patents against the letter and spirit of the current law. National judges in several European countries have criticised the EPO's practise and refused to recognize these patents as valid. Now this commission wants to "harmonize" the national laws to force the different countries to adopt laws which (retroactively) make these patents legal.
By casting this as a simple law harmonization issue the Legal Affairs Committe is trying to make this a small issue and saving the EPO some embarrassment when the big companies (Microsoft and IBM are the biggest holders of these illegal patents) find out that they have worthless papers.
But it is a really big change since currently "discoveries, scientific theories, mathematical methods, aesthetic creations, schemes, rules and methods for performing mental acts, playing games or doing business, programs for computers, and presentations of information" are all clearly not patentable according to Art 52 of the European Patent Convention. The committee tries to just remove these clear exceptions and introduce some (ill formulated) new exception rules which are more in line with what the EPO has been doing but which judges just don't accept!
(http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/epc52/index.en.html)
BTW I thought the "Test Suite" that the ffii/eurolinux people came up with was pretty good: http://swpat.ffii.org/analysis/testsuite/index.en.html and http://www.ffii.org/proj/kunst/swpat/pamflet/europarl03-testbed.en.pdf
It presents some of these patents that the EPO has illegally granted in the past and asks some simple questions be answered:
Hopefully now that the proposal seem to be redrafted someone will take the time to answer those questions so a real decission on whether this "clearification" of the European Patent Convention is a good idea or not.
Posted Aug 29, 2003 14:42 UTC (Fri)
by wookey (guest, #5501)
[Link]
In general MEPs think the US is doing better than us (the EU) at software (IBM, Microsoft, Sun) and jumps to the essentially false conclusion that we must have software Patents here to catch up. The fact that Microsoft's dominance has nothing to do with patents is glossed-over. The increasing complaints coming from the US about the system don't seem to be sinking in yet. Hard facts from real American developers/business owners about the badness of swpats would be very useful amunition. Who to send such missives to? If you send them to me I'll try to get them sent somewhere useful. The FFII http://swpats.ffii.org/ maintain lists of who to hassle at the EU, and would love any contributions you can make. Sending them to Arlene McArthy is nominally the correct place but I suspect she is not persuadable.
Posted Aug 29, 2003 6:44 UTC (Fri)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link] (3 responses)
http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/pdfs/patents/specific/computer.pdf Basically, you can come up with some convoluted text, show that it's new, inventive, practical and useful and you get yourself a patent on computer software. The examples in the text are very lame, especially the e-commerce one. If what they are describing there as a patent is truly patentable, then I've encountered many such things while looking through open source code, namely Apache and Tomcat. And yet, it would never occur to me that someone could have an exclusive right to code that. There simply isn't enough justification for something like that to become exclusive, because it's part of every programmer's day to day work. Normally, patents last for 20 years, unless you apply for the "innovation patent" which last 8 years. I guess we're too late down here...
Posted Aug 29, 2003 7:14 UTC (Fri)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link]
http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=5&appnum=200232865 How can something like that be a patent? It is beyond ridiculous. This took me about 10 minutes to find...
Posted Aug 29, 2003 13:01 UTC (Fri)
by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
[Link] (1 responses)
http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=7&appnum=200232790 The above is a patent application by Motorola. Basically, some device checks its own id and then downloads the software for itself. How very inventive! They have applied for this patent in November 2001 internationally. I just can't believe that this is not some kind of a joke. I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry. I've never searched the actual patent databases before, but in a just few simple attempts I've been able to identify something that's completely bogus and it wouldn't qualify as a high school work, let alone an invention. Another funny one is a cluster: http://apa.hpa.com.au:8080/ipapa/hitlist?HitNumber=8&appnum=200232411 Pay attention to the language. Convoluted like you wouldn't believe it. Really sad... I think I'll be sending some letters to the Australian Patent Office soon....
Posted Aug 29, 2003 14:32 UTC (Fri)
by wookey (guest, #5501)
[Link]
Looking at real patents is a very good way to get a handle on why anyone who writes software thinks the system is hopelessly broken. The thing you have to get your head round is why large sections of society (especially anyone who actually works in this area) don't see a problem. We had a meeting about this in Cambridge on Wed 27th which included patent professionals and had as speaker the official (Robert Bray) who was responsible for drawing up the Current EU proposal on behalf of Arlene McArthy. He's a reasonable chap and appears to sincerely believe that the directive is simply normalising the status quo, and thus will not do any harm. That's actually quite true, but this rather assumes that the status quo is acceptable. Any developer looking at a few Software Patents, whether in Australia or the EU, will find that it is not. The other point made is that passing this directive would 'remove legal uncertainty'. The JURI committee paint this as a good thing, but from our point of view it's not, as the uncertainty is the only thing stopping copanies trying to enforce their laugable patents in the EU. However if we get this directive stopped that does nothing to stop the patent inflation that has been going on in the national courts (primarily of Germany and the UK) for years. They will continue to patent all sorts of rubbish. Bray said that they couldn't be stricter in the Directive than current case-law as it would simply be overturned. We have to strongly oppose that idea and insist that the EU can and does set policy in this area and must protect software _from_ patents and get us back towards the 'computer programs are not patentable' idea of the 1970s. Anyone who already works with Patents or in an idustry subject to them can't understand what the problem is. They are so used to the idea of tying up every concept into private ownership that they see that as the natural way the world works, and describe software as 'an anomaly, that needs to join the real world'. The fact that software exists very happily with Copyright protection and adding patent protection will be a huge brake on innovation doesn't resonate with them. They simply don't believe it and can't see why software should get an 'exception' from patent 'protection' when hardware doesn't (and it's true that it's very hard to draw a legal line between them these days). You have to remember to keep pressing the point that it is not a matter of 'normalising' the treatment of software. It has to be shown that there is a public benefit in giving state monopolies for software ideas - all the economic evidence and most of the evidence from people in the field is that it won't help (indeed it could easily be a disaster). On the other hand Free Software has a huge advantage which is not often mentioned - everything we do is published straight away. That can be a powerful tool for showing that someone's patent is not valid because it wasn't new. The problem is that lawyers tend to only consider other patents when deciding if a patent is new, not code, and the costs can be prohibitive. Nevertheless we do have an advantage - as the body of free software accumulates it ought to be harder and harder for people to patent obvious things without there being loads of already-published code that already does it, or at least harder and harder to actually enforce their crappy patents. Indeed one thing that would hugely imporve the system would be if all applications were circulated to a distributed body of geeks who could check for prior art. It impossible for any Patent examiner to be an expert in all software fields - you need a distributed system. The incentive for doing this is that if we don't we may end up unable to write any code without infringing.
Posted Aug 29, 2003 6:47 UTC (Fri)
by ookami (guest, #14555)
[Link] (2 responses)
People, you have to stand up.
Posted Aug 29, 2003 9:06 UTC (Fri)
by erich (guest, #7127)
[Link] (1 responses)
The green party (at least the german representees) stated to me that they will vote against this patent resolution. Well, no wonder i favour the greens... ;)
Posted Aug 29, 2003 11:19 UTC (Fri)
by pointwood (guest, #2814)
[Link]
IBM may be a big supporter of Linux, but as long as they are pro software patents, they don't get positive remarks in my book!
I've talked the European Parliment Office.More info
This shows that we CAN make a difference when we follow through with actions. But let's not get complacent. We have to see what the committee comes up with next.The community CAN make a difference
> let's not get complacent. We have to see what the committee comes upThe community CAN make a difference
Rather than wait and see what they come up with, I think we should get to work on the committee.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/internal_market/en/indprop/comp/02-32.htmThanks!
I'm afraid there may have been some confusion here. At least I got confirmation from 4 MEP assitants that the JURI report on the software patents directive has not ben withdrawn or returned to JURI. It will still be voted in plenary, only at a later date (22.9.2003 or late, not yet decided). Vote in plenary delayed, but McCarthy report kept
Maybe somebody can check again with the EP Office in Ireland or any other
EP source.
Oh, joy! A small win for democracy!
EU software patent vote delayed
Here's a (bad) translation from Italian to English using
Google's translation tools, lightly formatted for clarity.
The FFII, at least, believes that this rescheduling
has occurred specifically due to its lobbying.
If so, that's great news - somehow the majority managed to get themselves
heard, in spite of a committee that ignored the people.
I look forward to better translations, but it's possible to
get the sense of the article from this bad translation.
Here's an automated translation
For those readers who are not aware of the complexity of European Here's an automated translation
Politics, the Radical Party is a small center party mainly Italian. They
have not enough deputies in the European Parliament to form a group. The
only thing radical in them is their name and maybe their
anti-clericalism.
Google made a good enough job. Here is the same translation, with some obvious fixes.
Here's an automated translation
PRESS ENCOUNTER/PRESS CONFERENCE AGAINST the LICENCES SOFTWARE SENT BACK TO THE 12 SEPTEMBER.
The date of the conference, initially established for tomorrow August 29, is POSTPONED OF TWO WEEKS, to September 12. The event is aimed to make the European press and parliamentarians aware of the dangers of the McCarthy directive on the European software licences and will be broadcasted by Radio Radicale. More information on the software licences in Europe in the official press notice ( http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030826-01.shtml ) emitted from the Association for the Free Software. The program of the encounter will be published as soon as available on http://softwarelibero.it/news/20030828-01.shtml , after the text of the present announce.
Trust me on this (an American that suffers through an oppressive copyright / patent system), you MUST do whatever it takes to keep software patents from being legal in Europe. Your freedom is at stake!
Congrats Europeans!
The problem is that we already have lots of software patents here :(
Congrats Europeans!
The problem is that we already have lots of software patents here :(
Congrats Europeans!
And very important:
You are right but it would help a great deal if you could take a little time to explain the problems you are experiencing in the US to some MEPs.Congrats Europeans!
I've checked with IP Australia and they pointed me to a PDF on their site that explains how patents are granted for software down under.Sad story in Oz
For instance:Sad story in Oz
Oh boy, I've searched some more and found some really idiotic examples. You can take a look at it here:Sad story in Oz
Scary isn't it?Sad story in Oz
There is some trouble ahead and already touching the community.Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws
Have a look at this site
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
maintained by Klaus Knopper, the inventer of Knoppix, a Linux distribution run from CD only. He closed his site because of the upcoming patent laws, that might force him to pay licence fees for his product.
Knoppix ist just as closed down as gimp.org, gnome.org and kde.org have been. ;)Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws
and my sites still are. There is always a hidden link to enter the real page.
Klaus has joined the online protest, just as many others have.
Just have a look at www.debian.org ;)
It would be very good if some companies such as SuSE would do a press release doubting the use of software patents. Well, if IBM would - being probably one of the biggest patent holders - state that software being not patentable in europe is "ok for them", they would do all of us a great favour...
the CDUCSU fraction (german conservatives) states that they support the resolution (although they always claim they are supporting small and medium sized companies and innovation, they usually do support the real big companies, which probably pay money to them. :-( )
the Social Democrats - where McCarthy belongs to - are kind of divided. I got a reply from a german member of that group who is personally in disfavour of swpats, and said that there is a lot of dissense.
Good luck in getting IBM to support us in this case. Since IBM is *the* biggest patent holder, they are the ones that got most to win with this. Knoppix site shut down due to the upcoming patent laws