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LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

By Jake Edge
August 24, 2011

Author and keen technology observer Clay Shirky came to LinuxCon in Vancouver to impart his vision of how large-scale collaboration works—and fails to work. In an energetic and amusing—if not always 100% historically accurate—talk, Shirky likened collaboration to "structured fighting" and looked at how and why that is. It is, he said, the structure that makes all the difference.

[Clay Shirky]

Shirky started things off with his "favorite bug report ever" (Firefox bug #330884), which starts with the line: "This privacy flaw has caused my fiancé and I to break-up after having dated for 5 years." Because of the way Firefox was recording information about sites that were blocked from ever storing the password, the woman who filed the bug found out that her intended was still visiting dating sites. What was interesting, Shirky said, was that the responses in the bug report not only included technical advice, but also relationship advice that was presented as if it were technical information. The report is proof that we can never really "disentangle the hard technical stuff from the squishy human stuff", he said.

He then put up a picture of the "most important Xerox machine in the world" as it was the one that was sent to Richard Stallman's lab without any source code for a driver. In "an epic fit of pique", Stallman wrote a driver and has devoted the following 25 years of his life to fighting the strategy of releasing software without the corresponding source code. But GNU projects were tightly managed, and it wasn't until another project came along, Linux, that the full power of large-scale collaboration was unlocked. Eric Raymond had this idea that the talent pool for a project was the entire world. Linus Torvalds took that idea and ran with it, he said. (That probably isn't quite the order of those events the rest of us remember, but Shirky's point is still valid.) One of the things that open source has given to the world, is the "amazing" ability to manage these large-scale collaborations.

Cognitive surplus

It goes well beyond software, he said. If you look at the "cognitive surplus" that is available for collaborative projects, it is truly a huge resource. A back-of-the-envelope calculation in 2008 came up with 100 million hours to create all of Wikipedia, including the talk pages, revisions, and so on. But that pales in comparison to television watching which takes up an estimated 1 trillion hours per year. There is an "enormous available pool of time and attention" that can be tapped since people are now all connected to the same grid, Shirky said.

As an example, he pointed to the Red Balloon Challenge that DARPA ran last year. They wanted to test new collaboration models, so they tethered ten weather balloons in locations across the US. The challenge was to gather a list of all ten and their latitude/longitude to within a mile.

An MIT team won the challenge by saying they would share the prize money with anyone who gave them information about the locations. But they also took a cue from Amway, he said, and offered a share of the prize to people who found a person that could give them location information. That led to a network effect, where people were asking their friends if they had seen any of the balloons. In the end, the MIT team solved the problem in nine hours, when DARPA had allocated 30 days for the challenge. "That's the cognitive surplus in action", Shirky said.

"When the whole world is potentially your talent pool, you can do amazing things", Shirky said. lolcats is one of those things and a "goodly chunk of cognitive surplus" goes into creating them, which leads to criticism of the internet. But that always happens with new media, he said, pointing out that the first erotic novel was written shortly after the invention of the printing press but that it took 150 years to think of using the invention for a scientific journal.

[Clay Shirky]

He showed several quotes from people reacting to new media like the telegraph, telephone, and television at the time each was introduced. The introduction of the television led the commenter to believe that world peace would occur because it would allow us to better connect with and understand other cultures. "Here's a hint of what happens with new media—it's not world peace", he said. More people communicating actually leads to more fighting, and the challenge is to figure out how to structure that fighting.

Shirky believes that the transition from alchemy to chemistry was fueled by the "decision to add structure to what the printing press made possible". Instead of performing and recording experiments in secret as alchemists did, the rise of the scientific journal changed the focus to publishing results that others could test for themselves—or argue about. The difference between the two is that alchemists hid their discipline, while chemists published, he said.

Three observations

Three observations about collaboration rounded out the rest of Shirky's talk. While its not a canonical list, he said, there are useful lessons from the observations. The first is that "many large-scale collaborations actually aren't". If you look at the page for Linux on Wikipedia, there have been some 10,000 edits from 4,000 different people. That equates to 2.5 edits per person, which is a pretty standard rate for Wikipedia pages.

That might appear to be a very large-scale collaboration, but it's not, he said. If you graph the contributions, you soon see that the most active contributors are doing the bulk of the work, with the top contributor doing around 500 edits of their own. The tenth highest contributor did 100 edits, and the 100th did 10 edits. Around 75% of contributors did only one edit ever.

That same pattern shows up in many different places, he said, including Linux kernel commits. These seemingly large-scale collaboration projects are really run by small, tight-knit groups that know each other and care about the project. That group integrates lots of small fixes that come from the wider community. Once we recognize that, we can plan for it, Shirky said.

Shirky's second observation was that many of the people who want to collaborate shouldn't be allowed to, at least easily. He pointed to stackoverflow and the related StackExchange sites as embodying some of this philosophy. StackExchange was spun off from stackoverflow to handle additional topic areas beyond just programming that the latter covers. Possible question and answer topics are "anything that is geeky enough to have a right answer" and that people want to argue about, Shirky said. But creating new Q&A sites on StackExchange does not follow the model that many other internet sites have used: "just let people do what they want and see what sticks". Instead, it is difficult to start a new site, which ensures that there is enough real interest in the topic.

The sites are "taking karma really seriously", and are "stretching both ends of the karmic equations". New users are not allowed to post either questions or answers right away, but must build up karma by reading the site first. Net etiquette always said that new users should do that, but "no one did it". At the other end of the spectrum, users can build up enough karma that they get sysop-like powers. These sites are an "attempt to say that we don't have to treat all people the same", he said.

Technology and human patterns need to match up, Shirky said, as his third observation. This goes back to the bug report at the beginning of his talk. It has taken a long time to align the two, he said, because code dominated free software communities for so long.

As an example, he pointed to the saga of Linux kernel source code management, which started out as tarballs and patches. Then BitKeeper showed up, and then went away, which (Shirky said) caused Torvalds to go back to tarballs and patches. Basically, Torvalds chose not to use any source code manager than use one whose functionality did not embrace the ideals of the GPL, Shirky said. He was not making a licensing argument here, after all Torvalds had been using the decidedly non-GPL BitKeeper, but instead was arguing (perhaps somewhat inaccurately) that Torvalds chose BitKeeper, and later Git, because the way they operate is in keeping with GPL ideals. Git "lives up to the promise of the GPL", because it decentralizes repositories and allows easy forking. Merging code should always be a community decision, which Git also embodies, he said.

Once Git was released, there were other interesting developments. Source code management systems had been around for decades, but were never used for anything but source code, Shirky said. Because Git matches people's mental model of how collaboration should work, it spawned things like github. But it doesn't stop there, he said, noting that there are Git repositories for novels, and that someone had checked in their genome to a public repository. The latter, of course, spawned an immediate pull request for 20 upgrades. A joke, but one that eventually resulted in a scholarly discussion about caffeine sensitivity that had participants from organizations like the National Institutes of Health.

There is also an effort called Open Knesset [Hebrew] that is attempting to use Git to help people better understand what they agree and disagree about. Essentially it takes laws proposed in the Israeli Knesset and checks them into Git, then tells people to fork the law and write it the way they would like to see it. "That will show where the arguments are", Shirky said. It is "audacious enough" that it probably won't work, but he also noted that "audacity beats predictability over the long haul". He believes we will see more of this kind of thing in the future.

One way to look at large-scale collaboration is that it is more people pooling more ideas, and that's true he said, but he would make an addition: "after arguing about it for a really long time". Taking this "structured argument approach" that free software (and other) communities have and moving it into other areas of our world will be beneficial. Applying some of the lessons learned from communities like StackExchange, Open Knesset, and the Linux kernel, as well as lessons from things like Mozilla bug entries will provide a means to take argumentation to the next level—and actually make it matter.

[ I would like to thank the Linux Foundation for travel assistance to attend LinuxCon. ]


(Log in to post comments)

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 1:40 UTC (Thu) by jonabbey (subscriber, #2736) [Link]

Fantastic article. Kudos, Jake.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 5:09 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]

the problem I have with the Karma-like approach on sites is that they all assume that the person has effectively unlimited time to spend building up such Karma. There are sites that host projects I am interested in, and have experience in the particular area (and see where they are missing things that I see as fairly obvious), but their karma requirements mean that I end up choosing between being obnoxious to build up karma quickly, or abandoning the site in frustration because I don't have the time to dedicate to building up the Karma before I can do anything useful.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 7:36 UTC (Thu) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]

This can be seen as a feature. The amount of topics I'm interested in is much larger than my ability to contribute something even slightly useful.
And dealing with my well intended but often misguided contributions can be a waste of everybody's time.
Anyway, I'm sure that, like with many things, there's no single good way to deal with this. Karma-like could be a way to separate the wheat from the chaff when the community is already built up. When you're starting, when you can deal with "useless" contributions in a economical way, or when you simply cannot afford the bad PR of disgruntled attention seekers, other options have to be considered.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 9:29 UTC (Thu) by michaeljt (subscriber, #39183) [Link]

Sites could let you "import" karma from other sites they recognise. An expert in one area who abuses that to waste people's time as a "newby" elsewhere could be duly penalised at source.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 11:03 UTC (Thu) by spaetz (subscriber, #32870) [Link]

> Sites could let you "import" karma from other sites they recognise. An expert in one area who abuses that to waste people's time as a "newby" elsewhere could be duly penalised at source.

Karma systems are a benchmark system, and like any benchmark they can be gamed and the more elaborate a benchmark is and the more fair it pretends to be, the easier it is to game and the trickier to detect.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 18:38 UTC (Thu) by sorpigal (subscriber, #36106) [Link]

I've often thought there ought to be a way to do federated karma, but no scheme I've been able to imagine would be able to withstand abuse well enough to provide any benefit.

karma-based discussion/collaboration sites

Posted Aug 28, 2011 1:39 UTC (Sun) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

I don't see that the sites assume a person has effectively unlimited time to build up karma. What I see is that they aren't interested in the participation of a person who doesn't.

And "unlimited" is an exaggeration, isn't it? Isn't the actual amount of time quite bounded and even predictable?

Computer networks used to be full of communities like that. I used to read and contribute to several forums every day. I knew most of the participants and we discussed things I was interested in. I had to stop when the Net got too big and all of them turned into help desks. I can understand people trying to set up such a community again, at the expense of the occasional quality contributor who just drops in.

karma-based discussion/collaboration sites

Posted Aug 28, 2011 12:31 UTC (Sun) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]

the time needed to earn karma may be bounded on one system, but across multiple systems it's not.

in part it depends on the karma system

one system I know of won't let you post anything in the dev section until you have posted enough messages outside of that section.

people can post stupid messages to reach the count, or they can wait an unknown amount of time until they have good useful messages to post. how long is this going to take?

requiring that people build up karma eliminates 'drive by' assistance from experts along with 'silly questions' from newbies. If you are doing kernel development (especially reverse engineering odd hardware), wouldn't you just love to get a comment from Linus? A Karma system will prevent this, and I guarantee you that your walled sandbox is not important enough for him to jump through hoops to participate in.

one of the criticisms of contributer agreements is that they raise the bar to contributers by making the process of submitting a quick patch hard. Karma systems do the same thing to block contributions.

karma-based discussion/collaboration sites

Posted Aug 28, 2011 19:23 UTC (Sun) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

I agree with all that, but I don't think the folks who invent and deploy karma systems make any false assumptions. I think they make a conscious tradeoff.

Just like when people have spam prevention systems that make it difficult or impossible for some people to send them email. Or unlisted telephone numbers.

karma-based discussion/collaboration sites

Posted Aug 28, 2011 23:59 UTC (Sun) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]

or requiring contributer agreements for patches.

or requiring copyright assignment for patches.

why is it these last two get people up in arms, while these other limits to contributions are shrugged off as not mattering?

karma-based discussion/collaboration sites

Posted Sep 29, 2011 21:56 UTC (Thu) by mfedyk (guest, #55303) [Link]

Because with patches, you have already limited the set to those that can write patches.

Regular forums on the other hand need to filter out many more people since the bar otherwise is only the ability to enter text into a computer.

World Peace?

Posted Aug 25, 2011 10:32 UTC (Thu) by NRArnot (subscriber, #3033) [Link]

"Here's a hint of what happens with new media—it's not world peace"

Um. Don't expect it to happen in less than several generations of people.

My view is that Radio and TV were unidirectional communication, from dictators to the masses, and enhanced the ability of fascist and communist empires to maintain themselves and fight each other. That's pretty much the sorry history of the 20th century.

Now we have peer to peer communication, and maybe the history of the 21st century will be the overthrow of dictators and the emergence of some sort of world peace. Or at least, a reduction in the scale and intensity of the wars. The fall of the USSR, and recent developments in the arab world, lend some support to this, but I don't expect to live long enough to see all the consequences of the internet played out.

World Peace!

Posted Aug 25, 2011 16:28 UTC (Thu) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

I agree with you about peer-to-peer changing things for the good. But it is possible to expand your definitions a bit and fold the 20th century wars into the pattern.

WW I has to be included in the old style propaganda, but at the same time, it's a continuum. Newspapers are also unidirectional one-to-many tools for propaganda. Small newspapers are harder to shut down, since radio and TV require more money and equipment than newspapers, both to end and receive, but governments find it easy enough to control newspapers.

Where the dictators fit into the theory is that, in many ways, they were the disintegration of world control by one or two old powers, ie Britain and France, Holland before them, Spain before that, and so on. Think of it as not masses as individual people, but masses as individual countries who threw off the British imperialist yoke.

Just as not all individuals with newly found freedom behave themselves well, not all countries with newly found independence behave well.

Look at China now. They are caught in an odd mixture of throwing off the imperialist yokes (westerners at first, then the Japanese) while having to cope with peer-to-peer communications, both internally and externally. Global trade is far more important to them than it was to Hitler, Stalin, or Mao.

Ah well, time to stop rambling :-)

Since I'm already OT, may as well add "Thanks for all the fish, Cmdr Taco."

That bloody 20th century

Posted Aug 28, 2011 17:22 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

To give some perspective: the combined death toll of all wars during the 20th century was 1% of the population -- meaning that only one in every 100 deaths in occidental countries was a result of war. Meanwhile, for the eco-friendly yanomami in the Amazon river, fights and squirmishes with their neighbors cause up to 33% of all male deaths. Talk about the good savage. (Source: Marvin Harris, "Cultural anthropology".)

World Peace?

Posted Sep 1, 2011 8:02 UTC (Thu) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]

I don't disagree with the gist of your point but I'm quite surprised by your USSR example, has anybody conclusively linked the fall of the USSR and Internet?

World Peace?

Posted Sep 1, 2011 9:04 UTC (Thu) by NRArnot (subscriber, #3033) [Link]

It wasn't the internet, which arrived a bit later, but "Samizdat" (?spelling) played a large role. The USSR had decided against the North Korean model of repression and economic (non-)development, and allowed its workers some access to photocopiers, word processors, and other office tools that we take for granted. These were used to propagate publications and opinions which the authorities would have preferred to suppress, but couldn't.

Economics also played a big role. Central planning had failed compared to Western non-centralisation, and citizens of the USSR had gained enough access to the Western world to know that this was the case. Again, interpersonal communications trumped Soviet propaganda from the centre.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 14:27 UTC (Thu) by njwhite (subscriber, #51848) [Link]

The quantity of small (but significant) mistakes in his telling of histories to me really sums up a lot of Shirky's work, this included; it sounds convincing to a relatively unfamiliar outsider, but is actually pretty vague in its conclusions, and lacking a real base of research from which to make them.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 15:24 UTC (Thu) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]

Yeah, it's frustrating and annoying. But at the same time, he does make connections between things that are at least worth thinking about and exploring. It kinda looks like he credits the actors he's describing with making those same connections consciously, rather than having their own independent reasons for what they do.

The outsider doesn't really care about Linus's motivations (which Shirky seems to get wrong at every step of the way), but may be interested in the results of his decisions. That outsider may then consider making similar sorts of decisions.

LinuxCon: Clay Shirky on collaboration

Posted Aug 25, 2011 17:13 UTC (Thu) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]

OpenKnesset ("Knesset" is the Israeli Parliament) is a project of the Workshop of Public Knowledge (הסדנא לידע ציבורי), which is a bunch of programmers who decided it would be cool to provide some information in a much more accessible way. AFAIK, they only store their code in git, and not the data. See

https://github.com/hasadna/

This is far from being the only (or even the first) one around. See e.g.:

http://www.opencongress.org/about/
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/about (UK)

(That is not to say that the Workshop's projects are not cool and highly useful here)

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