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Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica)
Ars technica speculates
on how Google's purchase of Motorola Mobility will change the Android
market. "For the time being, at least, Google claims that Motorola will be operated as a "separate business unit"-it will be owned by Google, but operationally will function like any other Android licensee. However, a claim made in a Wall Street Journal profile of Andy Rubin, the founder of Android Inc. and Google's senior vice president of Mobile, suggests that Google may not be telling the whole story. Specifically, the article says that "People close to the deal said one of Google's motivations was its desire to design devices, not just the software that powers them, thus giving it the sort of influence that rival Apple enjoys with its iPhone and iPad." Such a move would change the nature of the Google-Motorola relationship radically, and it's difficult to see how this wouldn't give Motorola a substantial advantage over other Android OEMs."
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Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 19:31 UTC (Fri) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] Google would be foolish to "hear" a has been company like Microsoft and Nokia.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 15:24 UTC (Sat) by clump (subscriber, #27801) [Link]
Microsoft has a lot of money. They're not as successful in the non-PC business these days, but it would be unwise to consider them harmless.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 22:29 UTC (Sat) by stumbles (guest, #8796) [Link] I did not say they were harmless.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 21, 2011 11:56 UTC (Sun) by xxiao (subscriber, #9631) [Link]
Why can't HP open source its WebOS? I mean _really_ open it (unlike what Google does), that may change everything.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 22, 2011 18:15 UTC (Mon) by jlargentaye (guest, #75206) [Link]
MeeGo rather than Android is a better example of an open-source platform's success after the corporate backers abandoned it. I'm not optimistic.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 22, 2011 19:33 UTC (Mon) by SEJeff (subscriber, #51588) [Link]
Define successful please? Meego is a promising alternative, but I don't see any real traction beyond a cool platform to hack on and some netbooks. Please tell me I'm misinformed here.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 23, 2011 14:26 UTC (Tue) by xxiao (subscriber, #9631) [Link]
it appears HP has a unix root and webos is shipping in volume, meego is relatively immature and as said, no traction at all. besides, the big gun intel backer for meego, is a chip vendor instead of software/system provider, that makes huge difference i think.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 23, 2011 14:37 UTC (Tue) by SEJeff (subscriber, #51588) [Link]
Intel gave out free tablets (the ExoPC) at the desktop summit in berlin a few weeks ago (https://www.desktopsummit.org/). They ran the latest and greatest meego as far as I understood. At the pub, one of the gents who got one showed it to me. It was quite underwhelming, the hardware was huge, and the interface was very buggy. I want meego to succeed, but looked at the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 in my bag. There was simply 0 comparison. Fedora with gnome shell seemed a lot more polished than meego on the ExoPC.
I do want meego to succeed, but I think they are too late to the game. They lack the warchest of money msft is willing to waste making windows mobile competitive. Hopefully time proves me wrong but I'll stay a cynic on this one.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 19:39 UTC (Fri) by beast (subscriber, #227) [Link]
A desire to design devices does not indicate a desire to compete with Android OEMs in the mass market. Google can avoid conflict with their partners by turning Motorola into a creator of Android reference platforms.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 21:47 UTC (Fri) by ian00 (subscriber, #55476) [Link]
"A desire to design devices does not indicate a desire to compete with Android OEMs in the mass market." Um, no. Motorola's main business IS competing with OEMs in the mass market, so by definition of Google buying Motorola, Google wants to do that, but they claim to want to do it in a way that is fair to other OEMs.
"Google can avoid conflict with their partners by turning Motorola into a creator of Android reference platforms." "Creator" is ambiguous, and this does not really alleviate any of the concerns raised in the article. If the Motorola business controlled or designed the reference platforms for Android, that is serious potential for competitive advantage.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 23:23 UTC (Fri) by Kluge (guest, #2881) [Link]
While it's impossible to know how this will affect Google's relationship with other Android OEMs, I think the most likely (and sufficient) reason for Google to buy Motorola is to acquire patents to fend off lawsuits from Apple, MS, etc.
My understanding of Google's interest in promoting Android was to ensure their penetration into the mobile sector. Without some leverage, they might have have been squeezed out (or taxed) as a service and content provider by the platform companies.
I suspect Google knows (particularly given the lackluster success of its own mobile hardware) that a robust ecosystem of OEMs is necessary for Android's continued success.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 21, 2011 12:52 UTC (Sun) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link]
It has seemed to me in the past like Google has come out with their own phones whenever competition in the market has failed to produce hardware they feel is advancing quickly enough. Competition in the Android space drives improvements and lets Android compete better with other platforms. I think, actually, that if there's going to be any special relationship between the platform owner and the OEM, it will be to make the OEM easier to compete with, because Google benefits if other OEMs make better phones, because users have more capable devices for using Google's services.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 22, 2011 10:37 UTC (Mon) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link]
You mean like how they only released Honeycomb (3.0) for the Xoom, holding it back from not only a general source release, but also their OEMs?
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 21:39 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]
It's great to hear the punditry from all those supposedly well-informed commentators who didn't manage to see this deal coming about what people should now expect Google to do, especially when a lot of the punditry recycles talking points from various outmanoeuvred competitors. And Stephen Elop is quite possibly the last person who should be giving lectures about strategy right now, at least if the strategy involves maintaining a company's viability and independence.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 22:48 UTC (Fri) by ian00 (subscriber, #55476) [Link]
It is completely standard for information on mergers/aquisitions to be kept very secret or very public across all industries for several reasons including insider trading laws. I'm sure 99.9% of google employees had no idea until the public announcement. However, I agree that the quality of punditry is quite dubious, partly because it is so influenced by competitors talking points.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 23:40 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]
To clarify, by "well-informed" I mean informed to a high enough degree, having observed the industry carefully, to generally be able to make educated guesses about what organisations will do next without having insiders whisper top-secret board-level plans in their ears.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 21:56 UTC (Fri) by xxiao (subscriber, #9631) [Link]
You don't compete with your customers. Period.
Just like the Android open source slogan, Google is probably lying again. We will know how HTC and Samsung etc respond in the future.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 23:36 UTC (Fri) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link] >You don't compete with your customers. Period.Unless you are indifferent about whether they continue as customers, of course. Two or three years down the road if this becomes a real problem, HTC, Samsung et al can switch to a different mobile operating system, or fork Android if necessary.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 19, 2011 23:54 UTC (Fri) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]
And the whole discussion about Google controlling vendors through Android was exhausted when Stephen Elop claimed that Nokia wouldn't be able to use Android, but he was being economical with the truth: Google probably don't want vendors using the Android brand if they then bundle various non-Google applications and services (Ovi Maps and the like), or at least the brand is where the control is applied by Google.
But there should be no issue in just forking Android, calling it something else, and using whatever services you like. The laughable thing about such claims is that Apple devices probably rely on Google for services as heavily as the average Android handset, and yet Apple isn't complaining, although they surely want to get people onto Apple services as soon as possible.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 2:51 UTC (Sat) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]
There seems to be quite a degree of flexibility. I have an HTC Android phone; it has HTC's 'Sense' UI, which looks a lot like it does on HTC's Windows phones, and it has a non-Google Maps navigation app pre-installed, and it's own non-Gmail mail client. It still passes muster enough to also have access to all the Google goodies, and the marketplace.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 0:04 UTC (Sat) by ras (subscriber, #33059) [Link] Maybe they could buy a perfectly fine mobile phone OS from Nokia. I hear they have one they aren't using.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 9:09 UTC (Sat) by gidoca (subscriber, #62438) [Link]
I hear they have two of them. :)
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 4:45 UTC (Sat) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
So what about the Nexus S and One then?
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 4:57 UTC (Sat) by botus (guest, #77760) [Link]
All Nexus series products belongs to Moto then, I guess.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 12:12 UTC (Sat) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
I was referring to the notion that Google producing Googl-branded handsets would upset the vendor apple cart. If this was the case it would already have occurred when the Nexus line was introduced.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 19:31 UTC (Sat) by bats999 (subscriber, #70285) [Link]
"You don't compete with your customers. Period."
My gut reaction to this was "Are you kidding me?" How many global manufacturers have done exactly this? And made it very profitable? Besides, this is business - lying can't exist when there's no concept of truth.
I do think some investors will be very disappointed if Google doesn't attempt to use it's new assets to their full capacity. However, I don't believe these other OEMs should be all that concerned if they do. They have to compete/diversify anyway. Doesn't Samsung make hardware for Apple? HTC has shipped Windows stuff for years.
The "networked appliance" market continues to grow. If a reference design comes out of this as others have projected, OEMs will have plenty of incentive to build Android stuff, especially if they can sidestep some patent silliness. Motorola can't build, brand and distribute everything.
GPL and Android Posted Aug 22, 2011 15:12 UTC (Mon) by southey (subscriber, #9466) [Link]
Your argument doesn't work because the GPL in the Linux kernel forces Google to freely give the vast majority of Android code to everyone. It is hard to consider that any 'non-free' Android components would force customer's to use Google Android unless the economics make sense.
The only thing that Google could do is hold back releases but, as Linux and open source history has shown, that requires major effort (see the need for maintainers of old trees and the amount of effort that companies like Red Hat to support the kernel acros distros). Thus, this is unlikely as it is self-defeating with the major risk that other's will fork Android and move ahead of you.
GPL and Android Posted Aug 22, 2011 16:14 UTC (Mon) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] Your argument doesn't work because the GPL in the Linux kernel forces Google to freely give the vast majority of Android code to everyone.No, it forces Google to give the kernel source to everyone. Almost all of the rest is under Apache or similar, so Google can close it up at will (as they did with Honeycomb).
GPL and Android Posted Aug 23, 2011 13:28 UTC (Tue) by southey (subscriber, #9466) [Link]
Nope as only the kernel is the important part since it has to interact with the hardware. Consequently, any non-free software part is irrelevant provided you are prepared to write the code. Perhaps this will force the manufacturers to be more a community than waiting for the 'grass to grow'.
GPL and Android Posted Aug 28, 2011 23:47 UTC (Sun) by kolla (guest, #23560) [Link]
There's plenty of non-GPL binary blobs in the android kernel modules. My LG-P990 Optimus 2x has nVidia chipset in it, do you think that the driver (kernel module) is written by Google or LG? No, it's written by nVidia, and is as closed source as they get.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 23, 2011 0:51 UTC (Tue) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link]
Last time I checked, they were partners not customers. Do any of them actually purchase anything from Google?
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 0:11 UTC (Sat) by karthik_s1 (subscriber, #60525) [Link]
Google most likely wouldn't have bought Motorola if there weren't this patent war, which makes it clear that this acquisition is mainly for patents.
And the Android vendors should be pretty happy about this deal, as Google hasn't washed its hands off of them. The hardware business that comes with this acquisition is a bonus. Of course google would try to make money out of it, since they aren't running a charity. They say even in that case, they will be fair to other OEMs. There is no reason not to believe it.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 9:44 UTC (Sat) by error27 (subscriber, #8346) [Link]
You almost feel sorry for Nokia. Microsoft probably would have bought them but they didn't want to danger their relationship with other vendors.
Instead they formed this relationship. It is special enough that the other windows vendors don't trust it. All their current customers hate it. Their stock took a 40% hit. They can't come out with a new phone for a year. Meanwhile their market share has fallen from 40% this time last year to 20%. They're now totally dependent on Microsoft's new phone software which is selling poorly.
They got $1 billion for that.
Meanwhile Motorola gets bought by Google. All the other Google partners are cheering because they hope that Google is going to finally ride in like a white knight and counter sue Microsoft and Apple. The media is gushing about new phone designs and set top boxes. Motorola gets $12 billion.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 23, 2011 4:01 UTC (Tue) by ikm (subscriber, #493) [Link]
Might I suggest writing for lwn, or any other zine?
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 11:16 UTC (Sat) by forlwn (guest, #63934) [Link]
Google bought Motorola to protect the Android ecosystem from patent litigation. For the purpose, they didn't have much to choose from.
Nobody knows yet what other rules will Google decide to have over Motorola. Google need Android manufacturers to use their cloud technologies. Even if Google would give some preferential treatment to Motorola (which I don't believe), they could always offset that by giving manufacturers other compensations.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 16:39 UTC (Sat) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]
There's always the possibility that if owning Motorola is seen to be a liability, then Google could just sell it again, but hang on to the patents that it appears were the main target of the acquisition. I don't expect that to happen in practice, but it's not as if Google have painted themselves into a corner they can't get out of if necessary.
Ars author is their "Microsoft Contributor" Posted Aug 20, 2011 17:06 UTC (Sat) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link]
note that the ARS author is their "Microsoft Contributor". Read into that what you will...
ARS used to be a good site... it's gone downhill drastically in the last couple of years. With Jon Stokes leaving, I don't have much remaining hope for them (or reason to read them).
Ars author is their "Microsoft Contributor" Posted Aug 21, 2011 11:43 UTC (Sun) by Fowl (subscriber, #65667) [Link]
That just means the person they have assigned to report on Microsoft.
Ars author is their "Microsoft Contributor" Posted Aug 23, 2011 23:22 UTC (Tue) by rodgerd (guest, #58896) [Link]
Peter B and Chris F were essentially promoted from being very noisy platform zealots in the Ars forums to full-time writers. Which is great for them, but it pretty much means that the Ars coverage on a lot of these topics is, well, platform zealotry.
Ars author is their "Microsoft Contributor" Posted Aug 22, 2011 11:15 UTC (Mon) by Rehdon (guest, #45440) [Link]
Exactly my feeling. When it comes to Apple or Microsoft there's very little critical thinking going on at Ars, nowadays. Compare with Ryan Paul's articles, instead.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 20, 2011 21:30 UTC (Sat) by HenrikH (guest, #31152) [Link]
Isn't Android technically developed by the Open Handset Alliance which contains several manufacturers? If so whether Google owns Motorola or not should not have any impact towards the direction of Android since Motorola was already one of the foundation members anyways.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 22, 2011 2:56 UTC (Mon) by steffen780 (guest, #68142) [Link]
This Open Handset Alliance stuff appears to be pure PR, just like the claim that Android is still open source. If and when Google actually delivers on its promises wrt open source we can start considering to believe their promises wrt Open Handset Alliance and Motorala. For now Android is proprietary (except the kernel), Google is a major mobile company with a massive patent portfolio, and I can see no logical grounds to think that Google will use these patents nicely.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 22, 2011 7:20 UTC (Mon) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
That's sticking to the facts, yes, but I'm tempted to remark that Google has actually delivered quite often in the past. Can this count as "logical grounds"?
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 24, 2011 20:55 UTC (Wed) by HenrikH (guest, #31152) [Link]
The question is of course wheather the alliance is PR due to Google forcing it this way or because the other members are sufficient in letting Google be the sole contributor.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 21, 2011 9:57 UTC (Sun) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]
What's the bet this article was written by Peter Bright?
I don't want to check and inflate their pageviews for deliberate & stupidly contentious misguided articles, of which he is the master.
Android OEMs should hear Microsoft, Nokia out on Google-Motorola combo (ars technica) Posted Aug 23, 2011 9:21 UTC (Tue) by ras (subscriber, #33059) [Link]
Don't knock Peter Bright. I have been reading ARS and LWN for years, but it wasn't until Peter came along that I started to appreciate what a wonderful thing a good journalist is.
For some reason I just thought I liked reading some sites because of the topics the choose to report on. It was Peter who made it plainly obvious that isn't so, and so it was because of Peter contributions that I started to see people like our editor here in a new light.
Good journalists are really special. They are usually logical, polite, timely and provocative at the same time. And they do it week in, week out, rarely missing a beat.
It is an amazing feat. Their talents are so obvious now, I am not sure how I took them for granted for so many years. It's a bit embarrassing that I did, really.
As for the topic at hand, big companies will always behave like big companies, and from an open source perspective do the oddest of things. It looks like the phone hardware is stabilising now. Google success at pushing a single OS has standardised the platform. It's time for us to take matters into our own hands, and do something like a Debian port of MeeGo/Hartman to Android hardware.
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