Who is that code for?
The recent examples are fairly obvious. Consider the firestorm which has resulted from the Firefox 5 release, the quick abandonment of Firefox 4, and the prospect of the same thing happening again in the near future with Firefox 6. For individual desktop users, this release scheme may work just fine, depending on how many extensions break (your editor reports with dread that this update broke Firemacs - and, thus, Emacs keybindings - in the browser). If, instead, you run a corporate network where software must go through an extended approval cycle prior to deployment, losing support for a major release constitutes a big setback. For "enterprises" with this type of policy, Firefox is increasingly unsuitable; it is thus not surprising that a lot of complaints have come from that direction.
The response from Firefox developers has been clear: the Firefox project is not targeting enterprise users. Firefox is successful because it was adopted by individuals, not their employers, and the plan is to continue to target those individuals. This view can be seen in the draft vision statement under consideration by the project now:
Making life easier for corporate information technology managers does not really figure into this plan. One can argue - as many have - that this approach can only serve to cement the role of Internet Explorer in corporate settings, but that is the choice the Firefox developers have made.
The other recent, high-profile misunderstanding with regard to target users is the GNOME project, and the GNOME 3 release in particular. There can be no doubt that some users are upset by the changes brought by GNOME 3 and GNOME Shell, even if there is disagreement over how large that group is. GNOME developer Bastien Nocera recently made it clear that at least some of those people are not in the GNOME project's target audience:
The project has made numerous other decisions which implement that same view of its user community. In this case, many of the affected users felt that, once upon a time, they were somebody that the GNOME project cared about. If GNOME has ever truly targeted users who care about their terminal emulator, it has since seen greener grass elsewhere and left those users behind. Those users have made their feelings known; at this point, the best thing to do is almost certainly to wish GNOME success with the users it is targeting and, if GNOME is no longer a suitable working environment, move on to something else that is.
The community is full of examples of how a view of the users affects the way the code is managed. Consider PostgreSQL; this is a project which does see "enterprise" users as interesting. PostgreSQL developers also assume that their users care a lot about their data. The results include a highly conservative, review-intensive patch merging policy and a five-year support policy. PostgreSQL 8.2, released in late 2006, will continue to be supported through the end of this year. The wait for new features may be longer than one might like, but rapid feature development is usually not at the top of the "must have" list for users of database management systems.
For a completely different view, see OpenBSD, which only grudgingly admits the existence of a user base outside of its development community at all. OpenBSD leader Theo de Raadt put it clearly a while back:
This position evidently works for this particular project, though it does lead to occasional misunderstandings when users forget their place.
Other examples abound. Git and Mercurial are similar tools with different views of their users - a difference especially felt, it seems, by Windows users. Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux share a common ancestor and a lot of code, but they are developed for different people. Prior to the early 2.6.x days, the kernel community (mostly) saw itself developing directly for end users; the even/odd development process was a direct result of that perception. Current kernels are developed (mainly) for distributors, with an associated focus on frequent stable releases and rapid merging of features. Pulseaudio targets different users than JACK. And so on.
It is a rare project that can be all things to all people; projects which
try often do not succeed. A clear idea of who the users are can do a lot
to focus a project's activity, attract like-minded developers, and increase
adoption. So projects need a good idea of who they are developing for;
they also need to communicate that vision clearly. If a project does not
prioritize the needs of specific users, it is best if those users
understand that before they invest a lot of time into the software. Users,
in turn, should pay attention: just
as we would not expect a video editor to do source code highlighting, we
should not fault a project which is clearly targeting a specific group of
users for not meeting the needs of others. We are a large and rich
community; if one project does not meet a specific set of needs, there are
probably several others with a different and more suitable focus.
Posted Jun 30, 2011 2:39 UTC (Thu)
by thedevil (guest, #32913)
[Link] (9 responses)
If only that were so. What are the alternatives in the Firefox situation, for example? (Browsers with Gnome or KDE dependencies do not count.)
Posted Jun 30, 2011 3:51 UTC (Thu)
by bignose (subscriber, #40)
[Link] (4 responses)
I don't see particularly onerous dependencies for <a href="http://code.google.com/chromium/">Chromium</a> (the free-software core of Google's web browser).
Posted Jun 30, 2011 7:38 UTC (Thu)
by jschrod (subscriber, #1646)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Jun 30, 2011 7:43 UTC (Thu)
by bignose (subscriber, #40)
[Link]
Posted Jun 30, 2011 23:10 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link]
Posted Jul 5, 2011 22:27 UTC (Tue)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link]
Funny how easily you conflate these two cases. The fact is: in reality they are quite different. Individual-caring-for-stability-more-than-for-features situation does not have money for support contract and generally just wants to see the same things s/he seen yesterday in the same place. Corporations want (need?) support and predictability - and this is quite explicitly not the same thing. Companies (both small and big) drop their in-house solutions and switch to cloud offers like GMail or SalesForce CRMs - where you can not guarantee that tomorrow you'll be able to see buttons in the same place. But where you can expect some kind of support. And Chrome does offer this: it's extensions are limited specifically to support backward compatibility, you have predictable schedule and tech support staff has enough time to report bugs if they track developer and beta channels. There are also instructions for administrators. So while I can not say Chromium team is great WRT to corporate deployments at least they are thinking about it... in the usual Google's "cloud" sense (where your browser is updated when someone else decides it's time to upgrade) but it does think about Enterprise. Apparently Firefox just decided to abandon them.
Posted Jun 30, 2011 8:22 UTC (Thu)
by epa (subscriber, #39769)
[Link] (3 responses)
Admittedly they no longer promise compatibility with older extensions, but how many 'enterprises' install Firefox extensions anyway?
Posted Jun 30, 2011 10:29 UTC (Thu)
by Fowl (subscriber, #65667)
[Link] (2 responses)
They have stated a few times that doing these releases took resources away from regular development that could have been used to improve the product for the target user base.
ie. If "enterprise" wants security updates back-ported, they'll need to commit some resources.
Posted Jun 30, 2011 12:15 UTC (Thu)
by epa (subscriber, #39769)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jun 30, 2011 12:42 UTC (Thu)
by Fowl (subscriber, #65667)
[Link]
Posted Jun 30, 2011 3:54 UTC (Thu)
by bignose (subscriber, #40)
[Link] (3 responses)
Once again, Jonathan Corbet makes a single sentence worth my entire year's subscription fee.
Posted Jun 30, 2011 5:54 UTC (Thu)
by alonz (subscriber, #815)
[Link] (1 responses)
And I thought the eminently quotable sentence was
> we would not expect a video editor to do source code highlighting
:)
Posted Jul 7, 2011 19:54 UTC (Thu)
by jeremiah (subscriber, #1221)
[Link]
Posted Jul 4, 2011 22:42 UTC (Mon)
by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164)
[Link]
Posted Jun 30, 2011 9:23 UTC (Thu)
by hadess (subscriber, #24252)
[Link] (31 responses)
Huh, what?
We were never designing for people who wanted to choose their own terminal emulators. Ever. In fact, when it was written in 2001[1], it wasn't designed.
And we do support people who run terminal emulators, and we'll try to make the experience better when you have multiple terminal windows for different purposes (your mutt, irsii, etc.).
If you're going to be making broad statements like that, you'd better back it up with hard facts. It seems you're the one that has a "view" on GNOME developers, and try to push it out onto your readers. Feel free to mail me if you want to discuss this.
[1]: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/log/capp...
Posted Jun 30, 2011 14:24 UTC (Thu)
by proski (subscriber, #104)
[Link] (2 responses)
I prefer using xterm, which has no tabs. I actually want to have separate windows, not tabs, for every terminal. With GNOME 2, I could put xterm to the main menu with alacarte. I could run a new instance of xterm from the menu. GNOME 3 only has a menu in the fallback mode, and then it ignores applications added by alacarte to the top level menu. As for the GNOME shell, if I select xterm from the activities bar, I get switched to the existing window. I have to hold Ctrl or use right click to open another window. As far as I can tell, the experience is only getting worse.
Also, moving (not clicking!) the mouse to a wrong corner can lead to unexpected interruptions in the workflow. It looks like the mouse users are now being ignored in favor or the touchpad users. Now the heavy mouse users can understand what the heavy keyboard users have been enduring for years. They are not the primary audience of the project anymore.
Posted Jun 30, 2011 14:41 UTC (Thu)
by hadess (subscriber, #24252)
[Link] (1 responses)
Those problems you mention are the exact same ones that would be encountered if you used gnome-terminal instead. Which means it has nothing to do with the original problem that got mentioned in the article, or my comment. You might want to try using a keyboard shortcut to launch new terminals (System Settings -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts), or using the "Favourites in Panel" extension:
> Also, moving (not clicking!) the mouse to a wrong corner can lead
Keyboard users are probably much better served under GNOME 3 than they were under GNOME 2. I can launch applications without leaving the keyboard (Windows key, start typing name, enter). If you think you can trigger the overview mode too easily, I'm sure a well-worded bug filed against gnome-shell with your concerns would be appreciated. Random accusations really aren't.
Posted Jul 1, 2011 17:06 UTC (Fri)
by proski (subscriber, #104)
[Link]
Posted Jul 1, 2011 6:26 UTC (Fri)
by cworth (subscriber, #27653)
[Link]
I'm sensing violent agreement between you and Jonathan here.
When he said that GNOME decisions implement "that same view of its
Isn't that precisely what you are saying as well?
If not, I'm misunderstanding one or both of you.
-Carl
Posted Jul 1, 2011 15:37 UTC (Fri)
by dan_b (guest, #22105)
[Link]
"We were never designing for people who wanted to choose their own terminal emulators"
Once upon a time, a very very long time ago (like, 1998), some subset of people associated with the GNOME project were designing for people who wanted to program their own desktop using Guile Scheme, and Miguel was against spending time even on writing a standard window manager. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the project has changed focus - or, you might prefer to say, acquired a focus - since then, but perusal of the oldest bits of the gnome-list archives shows that it clearly has.
Posted Jul 1, 2011 22:48 UTC (Fri)
by clugstj (subscriber, #4020)
[Link] (25 responses)
Posted Jul 1, 2011 23:28 UTC (Fri)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (24 responses)
The problem is that if you ask people whether they need an option, the answer is likely to be "yes" even if said person is actually entirely capable of managing without it. People don't like to voluntarily change. You don't have a good idea of what people really need until you cut down on the available options and force them to. And sometimes in the process of trying to do that you end up trimming off more features than is ideal, and you end up with a situation like Gnome 2.0, where things perhaps did go to far and some functionality got re-added in 2.2 and 2.4. But after that pain, you have something that's less complicated and more usable than what came before it.
Gnome 1 -> Gnome 2 was a significant transition. 2 -> 3 is bigger in some ways and smaller in others. But many of the changes are similar in philosophy and the public response has strong parallels. The reason that some of the people involved seem arrogant is that they've been here before, done this before and it worked out fine last time round.
Posted Jul 1, 2011 23:37 UTC (Fri)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Jul 2, 2011 0:22 UTC (Sat)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
I don't think you can ever know this for a fact. I can't begin to think you would be able to judge this even at a broad level from some comments from pretty much the same people in a few websites. Fedora 15 happens to be the first distro to include it as the default and forum poll showed opinions are divided but majority in fact liked it. Downloads have increased quite a bit compared to previous releases. That isn't definitive but we can only get some idea what the user base thinks in a year or so from now when the dust has settled down a bit.
Posted Jul 2, 2011 0:47 UTC (Sat)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (4 responses)
Which isn't to say there won't be awkwardnesses. But I think that if you go back to the original 2.0 era, you'll find that people were pretty much as upset as they are now.
Posted Jul 2, 2011 3:38 UTC (Sat)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link] (3 responses)
http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=263445
Yes, I'm really glad Ubuntu still has it. For now...
Posted Jul 2, 2011 3:39 UTC (Sat)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jul 3, 2011 13:28 UTC (Sun)
by Tet (guest, #5433)
[Link] (1 responses)
Ha ha ha. Very funny. In theory that's true. In the real world, try logging a bug against anything but Rawhide or the latest released version, and it'll sit there until however many months are needed for it to be automatically closed for being too old. I like Red Hat. And Fedora is still my preferred distribution of choice. But it's getting harder and harder to defend that position with each new release, and I find myself looking around for alternatives. Sadly, outside of Ubuntu (which I wouldn't touch with a 10' barge pole), there's not a lot of choice.
Posted Jul 3, 2011 17:19 UTC (Sun)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
Posted Jul 2, 2011 0:30 UTC (Sat)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link] (3 responses)
Not sure I agree... I really resent the amount of time the Gnome team has forced me to waste on this 3.0 transition. First, to discover it doesn't work on my modern ATI laptop and file bugs. Second, to discover that neither my wife nor I get along the new UI (she says it's a computer trying to be a cell phone). And third, to not have a working fallback so now I need to learn LXDE or XFCE.
Is it too much to ask that a desktop environment be a little more conservative so I don't have to waste so much of my time on it? I have work to do. The Gnome 2 transition was never this bad.
Yes, I also believe this will work out OK in the end. But that doesn't mean that I ever want to go through it again.
Posted Jul 7, 2011 20:28 UTC (Thu)
by ovitters (guest, #27950)
[Link] (1 responses)
Not want to be impolite, but it seems better to enjoy life than to keep posting the same argument on LWN.
Posted Jul 8, 2011 0:02 UTC (Fri)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link]
This argument is new. It's "yes, the transition really was that painful," not "focus follows mouse is being buried." Both points worth making, no?
Surprised you didn't apply your last sentence to yourself!
Posted Jul 8, 2011 3:02 UTC (Fri)
by obi (guest, #5784)
[Link]
And maybe you'd like a desktop environment that's a bit more conservative - but I very much like the changes and continuous improvement. Like most people, 10% of the stuff rubs me the wrong way occasionally, but I file bugs, adapt, work around it, or wait it out on those things. And the other 90% improves my interaction with computers.
So yeah, I wouldn't mind them being even a bit more aggressive. But I do remember that I'm not the only (Gnome) user in the world.
Posted Jul 2, 2011 15:52 UTC (Sat)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (12 responses)
Options cost. There's the extra code behind them.
As a maintainer of some other software, this I can sympathise with. Options complicate the code, complicate testing, complicate life for the users, users will enable options that aren't appropriate for them, etc. Options absolutely need to be carefully controlled. "Just Do The Right Thing" is the much better option, whenever it is possible. Cause, as you say, otherwise this gets exponentially harder to cope with:
There's the combinatorial explosion of unintended behaviours resulting in bug reports that are difficult to track down.
However, if a fixed set of options make life hard in this way, then encouraging unfettered modification through code plugins is going be an order of magnitude worse. At least with options fixed in the code, the software developer trying to figure out a bug report will know the code concerned is "theirs" and always be able to find it.
I just can't square a project that on the one hand apparently wants to eliminate options because of how they complicate debugging user problems, while on the other hand encouraging users to address the lack of options by providing an unlimited plugin interface.
Posted Jul 2, 2011 16:27 UTC (Sat)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Jul 2, 2011 19:54 UTC (Sat)
by bronson (subscriber, #4806)
[Link] (9 responses)
The kernel discourages external modules and makes an effort to merge the ones even a few people use.
Gnome has been encouraging external modules and doesn't appear to have any intention of ever merging them. (going by what I read in the discussions)
Posted Jul 2, 2011 20:26 UTC (Sat)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Jul 2, 2011 20:39 UTC (Sat)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (7 responses)
(This also would mean that if distributions install any modules by default, that they would have to commit to fixing all bugs in the panel that their users report themselves, without involving upstream. Since this is not going to be practical for the vast majority of distributions, it either means that the module system will be almost unused, or that distributions will have to throw away a lot of bug reports, or that GNOME *will* have to accept reports from module users.)
Posted Jul 2, 2011 20:46 UTC (Sat)
by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Jul 3, 2011 20:28 UTC (Sun)
by elanthis (guest, #6227)
[Link] (5 responses)
For instance, my kernel has at most ever had one non-standard module installed, for GPU support when the FOSS drivers outright failed to support the hardware. The vast majority of the time, my Linux kernels are pure. Bug reports them from me are not going to be rejected on grounds of taintedness. I'm willing to bet that most Linux users are in the same boat. If a sizable portion of GNOME 3 users are installing a half-dozen modules to fix an assortment of minor annoyances then a sizable portion of GNOME 3 users will not be able to submit bugs.
Especially when it comes to end-user software, it's valuable to move the effort onto the developers, not the end users. That in part is why Bugzilla is an abomination unto FOSS (go through fifty steps, including account creation and verification, to file "The about dialog spelled 'GNOEM' wrong"). Requiring users to create test cases because the developers are too lazy to do their damn job is also a problem. It's one that makes sense in an Open Source as a hobby world, but in a world where projects have foundations and paid marketing teams and are obviously backed by large commercial ventures, it's just wrong.
Posted Jul 3, 2011 22:07 UTC (Sun)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Posted Jul 4, 2011 1:17 UTC (Mon)
by jrn (subscriber, #64214)
[Link] (1 responses)
Am I the only one who finds developers saying I have no clue whats causing that; heres some information that might be useful but your best bet is to come up with a reproduction recipe so I can investigate it on my end to be comfortingly honest?
Posted Jul 5, 2011 20:26 UTC (Tue)
by elanthis (guest, #6227)
[Link]
A dev can't fix a problem they can't reproduce. A dev also can't fix a problem they don't even try to reproduce, though. :)
Posted Jul 7, 2011 20:43 UTC (Thu)
by ovitters (guest, #27950)
[Link]
2. It does not take 50 steps to file a bug on (GNOME) bugzilla
3. Support should be done by a support team. If developers provide support, awesome. If not: unfortunate, but too bad.
4. Calling things hobby and so on is a bit strange. If you require support, shop around for it. There are various options for support.
5. Not sure if you meant this, so just clarifying to be sure: GNOME is not commercial, not run by commercial organisations, etc.
I'm an inactive Bugzilla developer and GNOME bugmaster btw.
Posted Jul 8, 2011 21:00 UTC (Fri)
by oak (guest, #2786)
[Link]
Valuable how and to whom?
If some software has, say thousand users per one developer, how it's valuable for developer to spend all his/her time trying to reproduce those thousand users' potential issues, instead of actually developing the software, improving its test-suite and fixing real bugs?
If user doesn't have a test-case, how developer is able to know that s/he managed to reproduce the "right" issue? And that his/her code change actually fixed the user's issue?
Most likely the user doesn't anymore even respond when developer finally has time to look at the bug. -> Bugs (or complaints) without proper test-cases or e.g. crash information that directly points out the problem, are just waste of everybody's time.
Posted Jul 3, 2011 17:47 UTC (Sun)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link]
With GNOME, it's a bit different. The GNOME shell developers aren't interested in integrating configuration options, rather they've designed the desktop so as to remove options from the core code-base, and instead push responsibility for end-user customisation to 3rd parties. Many of those 3rd parties will be hacker-users who miss some removed functionality, but who might not be in much of a position to give much support. In so far as any of these extensions become important to a significant number of users, the only place users will get support for them will be via distros. The distro engineers who end up working on these things sometimes will also be GNOME shell developers, quite likely.
I.e., from an end-user perspective, I see the 2 as being quite different. The kernel one exists both to ensure I pester my $PROPRIETARY_DRIVER vendor for support, and also to put pressure on them to consider submitting the driver for integration. Ultimately that works toward having better, less fractured support.
The GNOME shell one OTOH seems to fracture the support users can expect. If certain extensions might eventually become blessed and part of the core, that might be good. Till then though, it does seem more just a way to avoid responsibility for customisation options...
But we'll see in time, I guess. ;)
Posted Jun 30, 2011 15:16 UTC (Thu)
by johnny (guest, #10110)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jun 30, 2011 15:44 UTC (Thu)
by JFlorian (guest, #49650)
[Link]
Posted Jul 1, 2011 16:23 UTC (Fri)
by ipilcher (guest, #73401)
[Link] (2 responses)
Personally, I've never met a person who didn't want to change/configure some aspect of his or her computing experience.
Posted Jul 2, 2011 23:31 UTC (Sat)
by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497)
[Link]
I've never felt the need to change the default GNOME terminal emulator.
Does that count?
Posted Jul 7, 2011 20:32 UTC (Thu)
by ovitters (guest, #27950)
[Link]
This for a few hundred people in total, with a small amount of people who change anything they can :P
Posted Jul 2, 2011 11:55 UTC (Sat)
by kena (subscriber, #2735)
[Link]
Kind of a shame, since I've been a GNOME user since I first read about the alpha releases in the SEUL (Simple End-User Linux) lists, oh... 13(?) years ago.
C'est la vie. If they have no time for me, then it's clear I have no need for them.
Posted Jul 8, 2011 2:36 UTC (Fri)
by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
[Link]
They have alienated old users, to the extent of developers roaming this site insulting everyone including the editors - for having the audacity to want a functioning desktop.
The "if it has an extension we won't touch it" conversation above is illustrative. "if you want bugs fixed pay someone" also (i.e. GNOME 3.0 is perfect, we will ignore your bug reports).
OK, so they seem to be aiming at the newbie market. User friendly linux - fancy animations and zooming. Not us old GNOME user base who stupidly use terminal to do real work.
But they have managed to destroy the relationship with the most widely popular and newbie friendly distro. They are no longer shipped there.
They think they will conquer lots of new users via Fedora?
It'll be interesting to see if the corporate sponsorship starts to dry up for the GNOME foundation. Why would anyone sponsor a non-extensible shell (see the "we won't support extensions" discussion once again) with a dwindling user base, with caustic developers that attack even the press, and that isn't even the default on the most popular distro?
Posted Jul 10, 2011 2:42 UTC (Sun)
by slashdot (guest, #22014)
[Link]
For example, sure you can deliver a streamlined desktop in GNOME, but can also commit to providing extensive configurability with GConf, advanced extension support and any other important power user/developer features.
Likewise, Firefox can provide fast release, while also allowing to automatically use old versions of Gecko on Intranet web pages to keep compatibility for corporate users while still being secure.
In both cases, cost is limited, but benefits are extensive.
Stating that a project's purpose is to cater to all needs which can reasonably catered for seems a good start, rather than arbitrarily restricting the target.
Who is that code for?
Viable free-software alternatives to Firefox
Viable free-software alternatives to Firefox
Viable free-software alternatives to Firefox
Viable free-software alternatives to Firefox
Actually it's different
But in a corporate or individual-caring-for-stability-more-than-for-features situation
Why is Firefox unsuitable?
Why is Firefox unsuitable?
Why is Firefox unsuitable?
Why is Firefox unsuitable?
Understanding our place
> Once again, Jonathan Corbet makes a single sentence worth my entire year's subscription fee.
Understanding our place
Understanding our place
Understanding our place
Who is that code for?
> view of its user community.
we'll try to make the experience better when you have multiple terminal windows for different purposes
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
> separate windows, not tabs, for every terminal. With GNOME 2, I could
> put xterm to > the main menu with alacarte. I could run a new instance
> of xterm from the menu. GNOME 3 only has a menu in the fallback mode,
> and then it ignores applications added by alacarte to the top level
> menu. As for the GNOME shell, if I select xterm from the
> activities bar, I get switched to the existing window. I have to hold
> Ctrl or use right click to open another window. As far as I can tell,
> the experience is only getting worse.
http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
> to unexpected interruptions in the workflow. It looks like the
> mouse users are now being ignored in favor or the touchpad users.
> Now the heavy mouse users can understand what the heavy keyboard
> users have been enduring for years. They are not the primary
> audience of the project anymore.
I feel uneasy about filing a bug for software I don't use (I switched to LXDE).
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
>> view of its user community.
>
> Huh, what?
>
> We were never designing for people who wanted to choose their own
> terminal emulators. Ever.
user community", that view was that "people who like to choose their
own terminal emulators" are not "in the GNOME project's target
audience".
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
People don't like to voluntarily change.
There's not much voluntary about this. People like involuntary change even less, which is why people seem to be fleeing GNOME in even greater numbers than they did in the GNOME 1->2 transition.
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Fedora 14 is still a supported release
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
That in part is why Bugzilla is an abomination unto FOSS (go through fifty steps, including account creation and verification, to file "The about dialog spelled 'GNOEM' wrong").
Oh look, it's a quote for next week's LWN :)
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?
Re: who should do the testing for the bugs?
Who is that code for?
Nerdy plugins
I believe Vimperator now supports FF5, but I have switched to Pentadactyl (because it did support FF4 first IIRC). While Pentadactyl doesn't have an official release yet for FF5, the nightly builds work just fine AFAICT.
Nerdy plugins
GNOME "target users"
GNOME "target users"
GNOME "target users"
Regarding GNOME's stance, I have two words...
Who is that code for?
Who is that code for?