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SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek)
eWeek had a
conversation with SCO Group CEO Darl McBride. "'In a nutshell,
this litigation is essentially about the GNU General Public License and all
it stands for. That license has not yet been challenged or tested in court,
but it is now going to be. We are also firmly and aggressively challenging
the notion that Linux is a free operating system,' McBride said."
(Log in to post comments)
Wow! Posted Aug 19, 2003 5:29 UTC (Tue) by AnswerGuy (subscriber, #1256) [Link] The sheer unmitigated audacity! That's about as inflammatory as if a Brit landed at Ellis Island and challenged that the U.S. ever "freed" themselves from the British Empire!
Even worse Posted Aug 19, 2003 8:38 UTC (Tue) by rjamestaylor (guest, #339) [Link] It's worse than that...'cause your Brit may have gotten here on his own, but Caldera/SCOX obtained UNIX based on the windfall it received in its early 2000 IPO -- and IPO that shot incredibly high as the company benefited from hype surrounding Linux.Use Linux to acquire UNIX and then blame Linux for destroying UNIX. Caldera/SCOX should sue itself and give back the Linux-tainted IPO cash before complaining about the GPL. If Microsoft made the charges that SCOX is making it would be __less__ offensive. Isn't ANYONE left in SCOX that has a conscience about these things? Is there anyone in Lindon that wants to have a future in IT? Why aren't they stepping forward, leaking documents, swearing affidavits, mutinying against their feckless management and causing basic mayhem? Does everyone in Lindon drink the Kool-Aid?
Hypothesis Posted Aug 19, 2003 12:04 UTC (Tue) by hathawsh (subscriber, #11289) [Link] Hypothesis: in recent years, the faithful Linux developers changed employment from SCO to Novell. The two companies are within minutes of each other.It would explain a lot, wouldn't it?
Even worse Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:23 UTC (Tue) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] Not quite. When Caldera acquired SCO assets (note, not all of SCO was acquired) Caldera was still a Linux company. You didn't hear jack about UNIX vs. Linux until the new management team took over. Ransom et al would have never done anything like what you're seeing today. SCO assets were never acquired with the sole intention of pitting UNIX against Linux at a later date; if anything, the SCO sales channel and the IP that the sales channel was selling (and the engineers maintaining the IP) were what Caldera acquired.Let the "SCO apologist" accusations begin...
Wow! Posted Aug 19, 2003 10:36 UTC (Tue) by djabsolut (guest, #12799) [Link] They're scraping the bottom of the well. They should seriously consider hiring a hollywood script writer to come up with a new Linux/GNU-harassment plotline. Pay him/her in stock options, so the writer's performance directly affects how much $$$ he/she gets. As for attacking the GPL... first they ignore it and still distribute the linux kernel from their ftp site. Then they make the absurd claim that their extortion contract (read: "license") is compatible with the GPL. When IBM invokes the relevant clause(s) from the GPL in their countersuit, SCO says "that IBM should move away from the GPL" (btw, IBM's action implicitly states that they have pretty good faith in the GPL). Now SCO is saying that this case is all about GPL. Go figure, but that's the kind of (lack of) logic we expect from SCO anyway (actually, it is logical if all they care about is Pump'n'Dump). One could dig through the GPL and come up with quite a few relevant clauses, but this one should suffice: 7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program. The GPL is not something you can just ignore. The linux kernel is copyrighted by many people and they have given their permission to redistribute their works via the GPL. Failing to adhere to the GPL means that SCO is in violation of copyright (read: they're infringing on OUR (as in the Linux/GNU community) intellectual rights). Part of the relevant clause: 5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. (...)
Wow! and more Wow! Posted Aug 19, 2003 15:52 UTC (Tue) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] How large can we type, PLAIN FUD from typical criminal "smart" thieve?I'VE CHALENGE THEM, AS MANY OTHERS, TO SUE ME AS A USER, and i'm not one bit conserned... I know, its pretty obvious, that M$ and their friends from its financial pyramid are the ones really behind this stir and propaganda,... and i doubt they are willing to be reasonables, and are not serious about "biting" if they are allowed to, but... NO MATTER WHAT, THE WORST THING THE LINUX/OSS COMMUNITY CAN DO IS TO LET GO FROM EVOLVING STANDARDS (LIKE LSB), WITH FEAR OF WHAT MAY COME... It makes a lot more sense to abandon completly coding for Open-Source,..., yes that right,... if you are affraid is better to quit than wait for nothing, or else "shit" on SCO. AND EVOLVING THE OPEN STANDARDS IS THE BETTER WAY TO BEAT THE OWNER OF THE DOG NAMED SCO... All this stir from a "LEGAL" compleint against IBM about contracts, you can surely pretty clear see how far are they willing to go,... IF THEY WIN IS ONLY BECAUSE "YOU" HAVE QUITED !...
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 5:47 UTC (Tue) by pjs (guest, #10927) [Link] Maybe I misunderstood the lawsuit to be about a breach of IBM's contract. Apparantly it's now "essentially about the GNU General Public License and all it stands for" and "challenging the notion that Linux is a free operating system".The farther this thing goes, the more McBride's statements look like they're being read right off cue cards from Microsoft.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 5:57 UTC (Tue) by BrucePerens (subscriber, #2510) [Link] And now it's millions of lines of code that they claim were infringed. I hope everybody realizes how kooky that is.Bruce
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 6:23 UTC (Tue) by xorbe (guest, #3165) [Link] stock 2.4.21$ find -type f -name "*.c" | xargs cat | egrep -v '^[ \t\n]*$' | wc -l
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 9:41 UTC (Tue) by chel (guest, #11544) [Link] You should substract the lines orginating from 2.2 (there was noSCO IP in 2.2) that will raise SCO's IP claims in 2.4 kernels over 100% as "millions" should be much more than 2M
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 17:09 UTC (Tue) by sommere (guest, #14168) [Link] That's not quite right either. It is possible that some lines have been deleted between 2.2 and 2.4.A (somewhat) better estimate (although it does include documentation etc..) can be found by: which results in: still, > 1/3 of the code is just silly.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 6:48 UTC (Tue) by kunitz (guest, #3965) [Link] Under the theory, that everything which once upon a time mighthave been linked with AT&T's code is theirs. Seems to me that the UNIX license in the hands of SCO seems quite "viral" and ignores a number of intellectual property rights like patents (RCU), copyright (GPL) and such.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 10:41 UTC (Tue) by cpm (subscriber, #3554) [Link] The lawsuit *started* as about a so-called breach of contract, then it started morphing almost immediatly. The lawsuit is really about Microsoft trying to bury linux. Once this is over, there will be another and another. It will continue until either the GPL is defeated or Microsoft is broke.Given the way the US legal system *seems* to work, , , ,
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 11:03 UTC (Tue) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link] The reason it is now "about the GPL" is that IBM's counter-suit accuses SCO of 4 patent charges plus breach of GPL.It wasn't SCO brought the GPL into it - it was IBM! And now SCO *have* to fight the GPL - they don't have any choice unless they want to cave in and withdraw their suit, which they can't because that would be the end of SCO :-) And as I see it, IBM *intended* *exactly* *this*. The countersuit was filed just one or two days after SCO officially announced their licencing program. IBM couldn't file earlier, because it was the licencing program that breached the GPL. It's been commented elsewhere that the FSF are strangely silent. The obvious conclusion is that they are working with IBM on the GPL thing. Poor SCO :-) Cheers,
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 12:20 UTC (Tue) by jeroen (subscriber, #12372) [Link] The FSF has four articles about the SCO stuff: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/sco/ Your conclusion is right, the website says that Eben Moglen is "coordinating with IBM's lawyers on the matter."
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:58 UTC (Tue) by dbhost (guest, #3461) [Link] "The farther this thing goes, the more McBride's statements look like they're being read right off cue cards from Microsoft."I am truly shocked that you would come to such a conclusion. Don't you know that SCOs intents and interests here are pure as the driven snow and without outside influences? Why just listen to Darl McBrides statements on the matter and SCO's position, that is until that position moves so danged fast as to make it impossible to figure out where exactly they stand. From what I can tell SCOs position is this. Do you use a computer? Hmmm on the other hand, I guess you are right, that does look like the script right out of Redmond!
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 15:34 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] The farther this thing goes, the more McBride's statements look like they're being read right off cue cards from Microsoft. I don't think so. Microsoft can afford lawyers competent enough to make arguments better than this.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 16:24 UTC (Tue) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] "I don't think so. Microsoft can afford lawyers competent enough to make arguments better than this."Hey! but aren't they under a period of "watch what M$ is doing" from their last anti-trust lawsuit ?..., it could spell trouble to them.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 8:00 UTC (Tue) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link] I can't help wondering about the mental state of this Darl McBride - he seems to have gone out on limb altogether. My guess is that in one or two weeks' time he will start talking about how using Linux and other OSS is 'communism' or 'terrorism'.However, I must say that what we see with SCO is symptomatic of the entire state of 'American Crony Capitalism' - and let me say immediately that I am NOT amti-American, and I am NOT against good and healthy open market competition etc (although I do have reservation about capitalism). But after having seen Enron etc etc as well as the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq based on not even the weakest hint of legal reason, I can't really say that SCO is much out of line. They are just doing what they see bigger companies and the American government (am I repeating myself here?) doing.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:01 UTC (Tue) by adamruth (guest, #12380) [Link] >> using Linux and other OSS is 'communism' or 'terrorism'.I believe they already have. In their ammended complaint they mentioned how Linux could And don't forget the signs (designed and paid for by a SCO board member) shown at the
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek)or lets fry em now Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:04 UTC (Tue) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link] I for one am getting a bit crispy round the edges with this lot .. show of handswhat say we hijack a couple megaton nukes find Darl McBride and friend (feinds) drop one on there heads then one on the SCO building end of problem in a few short seconds.. count me in .. Pete
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek)or lets fry em now Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:33 UTC (Tue) by trutkin (guest, #3919) [Link] Posting threats to "hijack a couple megaton nukes" doesn't help our cause. You shouldknow better.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek)or lets fry em now Posted Aug 19, 2003 16:24 UTC (Tue) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link] He does speak for the level of anger in the community, even if the actual terms chosen were unfortunate.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek)or lets fry em now Posted Aug 19, 2003 21:09 UTC (Tue) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] I like the approach that's been taken in newer posts and on Slashdot; discredit them, like they deserve.
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 13:14 UTC (Tue) by monk234 (guest, #11260) [Link] Two things:1. McBride is desparate. I picture him in his office with his favorite bottle of Irish whisky slurring "I'll sshshow those ^&*%$$# damn users!!! Make a fafafool out of me will they? <fade to incoherant babbling>" So he'll continue to make a lot of noise but his audience will diminish.
It's Like a SLAPP Suit Posted Aug 19, 2003 18:06 UTC (Tue) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link] SCO doesn't really need to win. The same way the SLAPP suits threw wet blankets over other grassroots movements, if they can be a big enough bother to Linux users SCO may accomplish what they want through the mere threats. Ever consider that M$ could study that Linux setup they have and work out a way to probe for Samba systems from a Windows machine on a network? Then they could build this capability into their future Treach^H^H^H^Husted Computing model. A Trusted Windows computer would probe the network and if it found a Linux/Samba box, send e-mail to SCO, saying "We found another Linux Box - send over the Audit Team!"
It's Like a SLAPP Suit Posted Aug 20, 2003 8:19 UTC (Wed) by ekj (subscriber, #1524) [Link] Except for one thing. They are the cockroach, and we are the giant. There's no chanse in hell that SCO will ever manage to intimidate us.Infact there's probably thousands, like me, ready to bounce on them with restraining orders and lawsuits the minute I become aware that they're even issuing statements with libelous claims about Linux in my jurisdiction. The thing that surprises me is that they don't already have thousands of cases demanding gag-orders against them in the US, maybe this is connected to the ridiculous price and time needed for a suit in the US ? In Germany, SCO was already given a gag-order as a result of a suit brougth by LinuxTag which claimed (legitimately) that SCO where making unsubstantiated libellous claims hurting their bussiness. SCO was ordered to show evidence of the likelihood of the claims holding water, or shut up. Unsurprisingly they choose to shut up. Try visiting www.sco.de and finding anything negative about Linux. There's none whatsoever, not even a mention of their bogus "licensing program". Why doesn't thousands of people demand the same thing in the US ?
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 14:09 UTC (Tue) by lpbbear (guest, #4827) [Link] Please take the SCO threat seriously. SCO may or may not be bankrolled by Microsoft. It really doesn't matter whether they are or aren't. Thementality is the same. We have a group of entrenched corporations headed by clowns like Bill Gates and Darl McBride (of Frankenstein) who believe that it is their "manifest destiny" to control all digital media and products. Hollywood and the record Industry are the same type of scumbag. I always thought that this SCO thing was pointing directly at the GPL which is viewed as a threat to the hold these companies have on the economy and consumers. You who are in other countrys besides the US watch for signs of similar actions and stop them before they get a chance to get started. We DO have the right to create, sell, and use our own operating system no matter what Gates and his little buddy McBride and their paid "hitmen" think.
Even Kookier Posted Aug 19, 2003 14:26 UTC (Tue) by walterbyrd (guest, #11620) [Link] >>And now it's millions of lines of code that they claim were infringed. I hope everybody realizes how kooky that is.<<But kernel 2.2 is A-OK, only kernel 2.4 and beyond are in dispute. Are there millions of lines of different code between 2.2 and 2.4?
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 19, 2003 14:45 UTC (Tue) by dkite (guest, #4577) [Link] When this thing started I figured that it would never get to trial. The wholeownership of Unix is too uncertain at best, and anyone would be a fool to start stirring that pot. I wonder if Novell is talking to counsel about releasing all the documentation from the BSD case from the early 90's. Especially the parts showing how much of the Unix codebase comes from BSD. It is in my tendancy to give people the benefit of the doubt. I thought that maybe SCO has a bit of a case here. Then they show some lines of code that were contributed by SGI with clear BSD origins. Then they annouce they are including Samba in their own product. Have they no fear? Don't they know how vulnerable they are? They WANT to get before a judge? They want developers, old and respectable, to explain to a jury when and why they wrote the sections that were incorporated into Unix, under what license terms, and why they haven't made a fuss about their copyright until now? They want a jury to hear from the same how it is no problem for Linux to use their code? Do they want some respectable, well spoken developer like Linus tell a jury about how enjoyable it is to work with his peers, and make something useful? Juries have read about or seen community based construction projects. Complicated large structures erected in days. Anyone in construction knows that these projects are impossible. I know that they are impossible, even after having worked on two or three. But they happen. Complicated operating systems have come about by community effort. The whole thing is impossible, yet it exists. A jury will get to understand these things. Darl and crew are truly stupid. I really can come to no other conclusion. Derek
SCO Turns Up the Heat on Linux Users (eWeek) Posted Aug 20, 2003 22:59 UTC (Wed) by jdthood (guest, #4157) [Link] They aren't so stupid.First of all, they're getting richer at the expense of the fools who are buying SCO stock these days. Perhaps the manager of your mutual funds is one of the fools? Second, they have rather intelligently figured out that the growing body of GPL software is a threat to the entire proprietary software industry and quite predictably they have declared war against it. They are using all the weapons at their disposal: lawsuits, FUD, ideological rants, sob stories about stolen property. Their campaign hasn't worked too well so far, but it is far too early to tell whether or not it will work in the end. If SCO keeps this up long enough then I fear that a lot of corporate users will decide that Linux isn't safe to use. There is also the phenomenon, brought to our attention by a famous leader of the twentieth century who shall remain nameless, of the bigger falsehood being more credible than the smaller one. The mere fact that SCO is willing to make such bold claims will lead the clue-impaired to think "They wouldn't say that if they didn't have something to back it up!" This story just gets more and more interesting every day. In the beginning I thought it was a petty attempt to extort some money from IBM but it is escalating into a battle royale between two competing systems of software production. And it is clear that this is just part of larger war between the right and the left over the domain of the intellect. In case you hadn't noticed, the right is winning, so it is unwise to be complacent.
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