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Debian turns tenDebian turns tenPosted Aug 17, 2003 0:56 UTC (Sun) by njhurst (guest, #6022)In reply to: Debian turns ten by mdekkers Parent article: Debian turns ten Are you talking about stable, testing or unstable? As a general rule, with 'unstable' I have found that the software is available in debian before I even know it exists. That is, I find out about a new program to do, say, computer algebra, and sure enough! the latest version is already available in debian. Could you give some examples of programs which aren't available in debian yet please? (That way I can address the shortcoming :)
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Debian turns ten Posted Aug 17, 2003 1:57 UTC (Sun) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link] As a general rule, with 'unstable' I have found that the software is available in debian before I even know it exists.I agree. The only current exception that I can think of is XFree86, but I guess there have been some issues running 4.3 with Debian.
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 17, 2003 3:26 UTC (Sun) by coriordan (subscriber, #7544) [Link] The xfree maintainers are focusing on the testing distribution at the moment because of some kinda feature/package freeze is coming up. 4.2 is what 'testing' uses so their not concerned with 4.3 at the moment.xfree86 is always a pain for Debian because it has to work on 12 hardware architectures and the xfree86 folks only aim to get it working on i386. Maintaining the xfree86 package is as much a programming task as it is a packaging task, they work hard :) Ciaran O'Riordan
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 17, 2003 17:39 UTC (Sun) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] Me too (use uptodate Debian unstable). I suspect what theposter above means about reasons not relevant to 99.9% of users is, when one delves into the question of why the next stable release is taking so long, issues like 'the boot disks for the m68k distribution aren't ready yet' or something along those lines. One could argue that the good of the many would be better optimized by allowing the release schedule for the different hardware platforms to become staggered when necessary to accomodate timely releases containing broadly desired updates to core system components.
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 18, 2003 23:29 UTC (Mon) by Peter (guest, #1127) [Link] One could argue that the good of the many would be better optimized by allowing the release schedule for the different hardware platforms to become staggered when necessary Consider that Debian is the only major Linux distribution where non-i386 architectures are considered first-class citizens (excluding single-arch distros like YDL) and it seems they intend to keep it that way. By treating portability bugs as release-critical, they force maintainers not to sweep them under the rug, and thereby make it possible to maintain a single archive most of which works out-of-the-box on 12 architectures. Think of Debian as the equivalent of an ADA-compliant Linux distribution. Sure, maybe 99% of people have little need for ramps as an alternative to stairs, but the Debian policy is "nevertheless, we will provide ramps, and we refuse to just build a building first, let it operate with stairs only for awhile, and add the ramps later when it's convenient".
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 19, 2003 5:04 UTC (Tue) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] Bad analogy...Using m68K-based (old) computer = choice. Confined to wheelchair = non-choice % of Linux community using m68k = miniscule % of public with ambulatory disability = more than miniscule One rev back from latest software on linux m68k = small hobby problem Unable to access essential public facilities = big life problem One can always ride any purported inequality issue like a hobby horse. Suppose someone claims that all releases should be held until every package is fully internationalized in, say, the 50 most popular languages. Why is your m68k position more legitimate than that one?
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 18, 2003 9:14 UTC (Mon) by pontus (guest, #3701) [Link] It's nice to have updated packages, but when an unstable upgrade erases your mozilla bookmarks, or makes your system unbootable, you regret running 'unstable'. The only assistance you will get from e.g. the #debian irc channel is, "tough luck, but you're running unstable". This is from my own experience.
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 18, 2003 19:16 UTC (Mon) by josh_stern (guest, #4868) [Link] That's all theoretically true, and makes a good case for whyit would benefit users to have Debian Stable and Testing more uptodate. In practice, I haven't experienced any major problems with using the unstable repository over the last 2 years (note: my apt configuration files direct the program to use the more stable versions as the first resort). But or course I wouldn't run unstable on a server or production system.
Debian turns ten Posted Aug 19, 2003 12:07 UTC (Tue) by hazelsct (subscriber, #3659) [Link] Agreed completely. Take GNOME 2 for example, its first release was before the Debian Woody release. So why didn't Debian Woody use GNOME 2? Because it was not stable, and is still not stable!Gnumeric and Abiword are not ready for GNOME 2, with Galeon and Epiphany not ready there's no stable web browser, gnome-pilot has broken conduits and crashes frequently, the new Glib is messing everybody up... It's all getting there, but XD2 notwithstanding, not ready for prime time the way GNOME 1.4 is now and has been since not long before Woody's release. And this is just GNOME; I could name a bunch of related packages with similar issues but the post would be too long -- stuff is just out of sync way too often (upgrading A breaks B in a subtle way, then upgrading B makes A and C's colors screwy, etc.). For this reason, I run all of my user workstations at work on Debian stable, and have home machines on unstable and testing -- and file bugs every day on the home machines! Debian's focus on making infrequent high-quality releases of stuff that works well together is making my users happy and productive people (and me too!), more productive than if the ground shifted unpredictably under their feet every four months as with some other distros. And when Sarge is ready (probably during the testing cycle), I will upgrade the work machines and users too.
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