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Poettering: Why systemd?Poettering: Why systemd?Posted May 4, 2011 20:42 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796)In reply to: Poettering: Why systemd? by aniou Parent article: Poettering: Why systemd?
"shell scripts used for glue things together. Bueh! It's unclean, it's impure, all daemons should works in one way, OUR WAY". I just read that thread and nobody seems to actually say that (or anything to that effect) there.
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Poettering: Why systemd? Posted May 4, 2011 21:05 UTC (Wed) by aniou (guest, #74708) [Link]
You probably missed this: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2011-...
Poettering: Why systemd? Posted May 4, 2011 21:31 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] No. I think there is a considerable difference between what Lennart said in that posting (»In my opinion, a database server should be able to take care of its own version upgrades on databases and not push that into distribution-specific shell code«) and what you claim he said (»Shell scripts are stupid and I am right about everything«). In fact, I happen to think that Lennart has a point. Anyway, there are probably lots of things worth criticising about systemd that actually exist. Personally I would suggest that if you must diss Lennart and systemd it would be a much more profitable use of everybody's time to address these instead of inventing your own fictional ones.
Poettering: Why systemd? Posted May 5, 2011 8:23 UTC (Thu) by aniou (guest, #74708) [Link]
Lennart's opinion about "valid" daemon's behavior is very, very wrong. And this is not opinion from more-or-less anonymous reader - this is opinion systemd creator and developer. Sorry, I don't see any pros from (for example) MySQL that creates missing databases itself. But I see drawbacks thats may lead to subtle and annoying situations.
Yes, of course, with simple installation, on single machine, witch typical scenarios it's doesn't matter - is databases created from script or by daemon. But uni*xes strength comes from diversity and - again - flexibility. Users and operators probably never deals with non-standard installs, but admins - yes.
Lennart's rants about separate /usr or /var ("Go to Slackware 1.0 then"), surprises with DoS via /run/user (and their "workaround", blah: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2011-...) clearly shows me that he isn't a sysadmin and don't care about different needs. But he has vision. This isn't enough for reliability and flexibility.
PS. that wasn't fictional case, I took it from official mailing-list.
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