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But nobody needs remote access, anyway. That's obsolete, like portability.
Getting both portability and innovation
Posted Mar 2, 2011 23:05 UTC (Wed) by einstein (subscriber, #2052)
On the contrary, Wayland will include X11 support - but it won't be loaded by default. That makes sense, since 98% of linux users never use the remote desktop features of X11 - but for those who need it, it will be there. Think of OSX X11 support, done right.
Posted Mar 3, 2011 0:06 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
Posted Mar 3, 2011 9:34 UTC (Thu) by roblucid (subscriber, #48964)
Posted Mar 3, 2011 0:57 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333)
The clincher is that none of it depends on X... at all.
Getting rid of X as your display server does not eliminate the possibility of using remote applications. Nor does it remove the possibility of using X11 apps either.
It's mostly a red herring when discussing Wayland vs Xfree Server.
Besides all that...
X11 is obsolete, slow, and a poor match with todays technology. It could be something nice, but that would require X12 and if you ever noticed: nobody is working on that.
In fact I think that people are now using more remote applications then they ever did in the past. It's just that relatively few people actually use X11 networking to do it. It's a poor choice for a variety of reasons. I am not describing what I would like it to be.. I just telling it the way it is. The remote access boat has sailed and it's captain is named 'Citrix'.
I would like to change this fact, but X11 networking is not going cut it.
wayland does not preclude application remoting
Posted Mar 3, 2011 1:28 UTC (Thu) by nwnk (subscriber, #52271)
No one has defined a remoting protocol specifically for a wayland compositing environment yet. This is good, not bad, because it means we have the opportunity to define a good one. The tight binding between window system and presentation in X11 means that while purely graphical interaction is relatively efficient, any interaction between apps is disastrously bad, because X doesn't define IPC, it defines a generic communication channel in which you can build the IPC you want, which is a cacaphony of round trips.
You want a compositing window system. You probably want your remoting protocol in the compositor. The compositing protocol and the remoting protocol should probably mesh nicely but they're not the same problem and conflating them is a fallacy.
You'll note that wayland also does not define a rendering protocol. In fact it goes out of its way not to. Yet for some reason, wayland is not accused of killing OpenGL, or killing cairo, or killing any other rendering API (besides core X11 I suppose). If anything, that people so tightly mentally bind remoting, rendering, and composition is a tribute to the worse-is-better success of X11.
Unlearn what you have learned.
Posted Mar 3, 2011 16:38 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
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