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Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica)
Ars technica covers
Sony's escalating lawsuits over the PS3 hacks. "Sony is also trying to haul the so-called "failOverflow hacking team" into court. But first, Sony needs to learn the identities and whereabouts of the group's members. They are accused of posting a rudimentary hack in December. It was refined by Hotz weeks later when he accessed the console's so-called "metldr keys," or root keys that trick the system into running unauthorized programs."
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Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 3:16 UTC (Wed) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]
One would think that if Sony was smart, they would use different techniques for preventing "unauthorized software" from running, and preventing unauthorized copies from running. The former is relatively benign, and also hard to prevent. The only reason I imagine Sony wants to do that is to collect royalties on all PS3 software.
The most effective way I can think of to accomplish the latter objective would be to distribute game specific decryption keys on secure USB devices, and require them to be loaded into some sort of internal write only decryption module. Then at the very least the attackers would have to perform hardware level hacking to get a different key for each game in production, and presumably load it on a custom USB device (after determining another system key) to get the key into the decryption system.
As it is, I think Sony may very well lose their court case (as they should), because tinkering with your own hardware to run unauthorized software is hardly circumventing anyone's copyright.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 3:42 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> One would think that if Sony was smart, they would use different techniques for preventing "unauthorized software" from running, and preventing unauthorized copies from running. The former is relatively benign, and also hard to prevent. The only reason I imagine Sony wants to do that is to collect royalties on all PS3 software.
It's to control the system. Royalties is part of it, but they want to make sure all uses of Playstation are according to their own wishes and use their presence and control of the market place to manipulate and control the actions of other corporations.
DRM is protected by law and it's use is to control other corporations. They don't have to put effort into making their system better when it's cheaper and more effective to have the government use it's ability to apply violence to individuals while funded by tax dollars.
> One would think that if Sony was smart, they would use different techniques for preventing "unauthorized software" from running, and preventing unauthorized copies from running. The former is relatively benign, and also hard to prevent. The only reason I imagine Sony wants to do that is to collect royalties on all PS3 software
Some games register their presence with your user account that is controlled by Sony. Then when you play the game your required to be connected to the Internet for authentication.
Each time. No internet connection and they will kick out of the game.
> As it is, I think Sony may very well lose their court case (as they should), because tinkering with your own hardware to run unauthorized software is hardly circumventing anyone's copyright.
You don't have to break copyright to violate DMCA.
The point of the DMCA is not to protect Sony and other publishers from copyright infringement. It's point is to protect copyright protections. If you distribute the ability to knowledge to break digital copyright protections your violating federal law.
Full stop.
Whether or not you use it to violate copyright or other people use it to violate copyright is entirely besides the point and would be brought up in entirely separate charges.
Think of Martha Stewart:
This is that sort of thing.
Copyright violations do not enter into it one bit.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 11:44 UTC (Wed) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
Yes but the DMCA has certain provisions that allow some forms of typically infringing behaviour doesn't it?
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 16:57 UTC (Wed) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link] The pertinent section of the DMCA reads:
(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or .. So these folks are presumbly in the clear unless it can be shown that this "technology" is "primarily designed" for the purpose of circumventing measures that control access to copyrighted works. Running unauthorized software does not require anyone to do so. I wouldn't count on the PS3 hackers winning on that point, unfortunately, if most of the people likely to use this technique are going to use it to run illegal copies, and *more* especially if any motivation on the part of the developers to make that possible is demonstrated.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 19:54 UTC (Wed) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] I wouldn't count on the PS3 hackers winning on that point, unfortunately, if most of the people likely to use this technique are going to use it to run illegal copies My understanding is that disclosure of the key is irrelevant to running illegal copies. You don't need any special key to run an illegal copy, because the copy already contains the necessary digital signature. The key only becomes relevant when you want to digitally sign and run a program that wasn't already signed by Sony. Rather, I think application of the DMCA would require arguing that the PS3 operating environment is itself a "work protected under this title". In that case using the key is arguably a circumvention of restrictions on access to the PS3. I leave it to the lawyers to argue about whether there is anything in the guts of a PS3 that is subject to copyright and thus protectable under the DMCA.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 18:44 UTC (Wed) by daniel (subscriber, #3181) [Link]
<quote>No internet connection and they will kick out of the game.</quote>
Simple: no next gen Sony console for me. The PS3 experience started passable and got worse and worse. Now all I have to look forward to is next gen games with dumbed down graphics and controls versus their PC versions. The only games that look good in that context are exclusives like Little Big Planet and there are precious few of those.
Next generation gaming for me will be all on Linux, either open game projects of which there are many and accelerating, or Linux ports of AAA titles. Anything else might as well not exist, I do not play games to be aggravated.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 5:50 UTC (Wed) by JdGordy (guest, #70103) [Link]
> The most effective way I can think of to accomplish the latter objective would be to distribute game specific decryption keys on secure USB devices
wouldn't that make piracy *easier*? if all it takes is a secure key, doesnt that just mean it will take someone 10min to stick a hardware usb debugger between the ps3 and the key and figure out how to spoof it and hey presto you have defeated it? (remember, with your idea you wouldn't need to decrypt anything, just make your usb key respond correctly to the ps3)
PKE Posted Feb 9, 2011 6:09 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]
No. The USB gadget would use a unique-per-gadget private key on a one-time-use challenge message from the console. The console can tell if a qualified key was used, without knowing any keys itself.
This idea fails on the principle that there must be nothing in the game box that costs more to make than the box itself.
PKE Posted Feb 9, 2011 16:41 UTC (Wed) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]
If the console / game folks feel they need to do this the cost of such devices in mass production would be trivial compared to the selling prices of each game. It would cost more to mass produce Atari 2600 compliant ROM cartridges, and that was hardly far from a viable market.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 9:32 UTC (Wed) by ebirdie (subscriber, #512) [Link]
"As it is, I think Sony may very well lose their court case (as they should), because tinkering with your own hardware to run unauthorized software is hardly circumventing anyone's copyright."
I don't have a PS3 and thus have not had a chance to read, what there is said by Sony, what you actually buy, when you buy a PS3. Do they really sell you hardware or just the "right" to use the hardware to run and use software authorized by Sony? I think it is the latter as de-facto situation. That is the standard and accepted situation with non-free software and that practice is applied to a hardware product here.
Maybe that is the desired and effectively achieved state at Sony, but they can't admit it directly because 1) in fear of lost sales (more people will get it, they will not own the hardware) and 2) there is possibly some legally grey area to sell hardware as software.
I'm just speculating and trying to view it from the other side.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 11:51 UTC (Wed) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
If they did sell the "right" to use the hardware there would be some form of license agreement.
The only licenses agreements users must accept are those involving the use of the PSN.
That is a pretty big part of the GeoHotz defense
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 18:06 UTC (Wed) by tuna (guest, #44480) [Link]
All of these hacks target the embedded the PS3 gameOS. I believe there is a EULA the first time you start the PS3 that you have to accept, though I am not sure about that part. Sometimes there is a EULA that you have to accept when you download an update.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 23:39 UTC (Wed) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
According to affidavit supplied by GeoHot, he never agreed to any form of license agreement
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 10, 2011 0:57 UTC (Thu) by rahvin (subscriber, #16953) [Link]
According to Sony he did. The devil is in how Sony acquired the information that he accepted it. Because the Sony affidavit was sealed the public won't know till later but I'm betting their "evidence" was that he purchased a PS3. Sony is a very nasty company and always has been. I'd suggest everyone boycott Sony products for good. I know I'll never buy another.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 10, 2011 9:22 UTC (Thu) by dark (subscriber, #8483) [Link] My problem is that I've been boycotting them since the rootkit incident, and now I can't boycott them any harder.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 10, 2011 16:31 UTC (Thu) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link]
You can always convince other people to boycott them too (for instance, tell your family and friends to never buy Sony again, explaining why).
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 14:20 UTC (Wed) by etienne (subscriber, #25256) [Link]
Not sure that they just want to license their hardware, in legal terms.
That would mean that if an accident happens, a short-circuit created a fire which did burn your house, they would be directly responsible. Also what about placement of this computer in your house, there was no ventilation at all and it gathered big amount of dust - but who's responsability is it? And what about connecting it to the electricity network, in some countries you are not allowed to resell electricity, maybe not even allowed to give it to another organisation - to power-up your playstation. IANAL.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 10:50 UTC (Wed) by ebirdie (subscriber, #512) [Link]
Finally some officials are up to their task:
RegHardware: "Norway to probe Sony's PS3 Linux 'downgrade'"
I think the matter really is, whether the manufactures are really making a decent effort that customers get informed and accept the conditions, what they will buy, BEFORE they give the money.
The current normative practice in software, and more so in hardware like a PS3, an iPhone or a laptop with Windows 7, is that a customer accepts the conditions AFTER he has given money and pratically there isn't any decent return procedure. Everyone knows by feeling that it is so much more difficult to return a product once you have paid it and many just start to pretend the decision was right.
Of course fools may loose their money, but since many countries have laws and officials protecting consumers, I think we should get something back from taxes spent to those. And not only in buying a PS3 but also in whole proprietary software/hardware business.
When you "buy" a bank loan, you will certainly not get money before you sign a contract. There is more and demanding contracts to be made, when buying a proprietary software license ("a right to use") and more so also with hardware.
Sony lawyers now targeting anyone who posts PlayStation 3 hack (ars technica) Posted Feb 9, 2011 22:53 UTC (Wed) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
no to mention things like when Apple periodically insists that you accept an update to the license agreement in order to continue using your phone.
Howler: the H reports how Sony got tricked into twittering the PS3 root key Posted Feb 12, 2011 18:39 UTC (Sat) by nettings (subscriber, #429) [Link]
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