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Supporting OOXML in LibreOfficeSupporting OOXML in LibreOfficePosted Jan 11, 2011 4:23 UTC (Tue) by DOT (subscriber, #58786)Parent article: Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice
I'm in favor of one of two possible solutions:
1. Don't write OOXML at all
Currently, LibreOffice implements a third solution:
3. Write OOXML 'pretty well'
This last option gives us the worst of both worlds: it further establishes OOXML as the standard format, and it further establishes MS Office as the only office suite that supports the standard format perfectly.
(With "OOXML", I mean the format that MS implemented, not the one that was specified as an ISO standard.)
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Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 6:29 UTC (Tue) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link]
I completely agree--it's a Charlie Brown vs. Lucy kind of situation. The format actually written by Microsoft's applications will change, conveniently making any competitors appear to be less than optimal. The "standard" that was approved is just the PR flack out front distracting the media.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 9:42 UTC (Tue) by michaeljt (subscriber, #39183) [Link]
> The format actually written by Microsoft's applications will change, conveniently making any competitors appear to be less than optimal.
But much as Microsoft might like it, the installed base of older versions of Office will not be upgraded overnight. So newer versions of Office have to retain some compatibility with older ones or they will also appear to be "less than optimal".
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 11:55 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] Yes, but that only builds up pressure for everybody to upgrade to the latest version. Microsoft is usually pretty good about backwards compatibility, i.e., MS Office n+1 can read documents written by MS Office n, but not necessarily vice-versa, so once enough people have moved to MS Office n+1, if you're still on MS Office n you will be inundated by Office n+1 documents that you can't open, from people who are (a) amazed how you can still work with that obsolete software package, Office n, and/or (b) used to saving stuff as ».doc« all the time and don't realise there are different flavours.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 12, 2011 9:25 UTC (Wed) by jezuch (subscriber, #52988) [Link]
Yes, it keeps compatibility with version N-1, N-2 and possibly N-3, but not much further. I once tried to open a document I created some years prior in Word 2.0 in some newer version. Ooops! Big mistake.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 12, 2011 10:32 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] Well of course. At some point they need to mop up the people who haven't upgraded earlier ;^)
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 9:45 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> 3. Write OOXML 'pretty well'
> This last option gives us the worst of both worlds: it further establishes OOXML as the standard format, and it further establishes MS Office as the only office suite that supports the standard format perfectly.
Probably correct, but also a purely political perspective disconnected from people who need to get their job done now.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 19:39 UTC (Tue) by DOT (subscriber, #58786) [Link]
Not at all. It's actually a purely practical (egoistical) perspective. I am not in a position to use MS Office, so I want to be able to use LibreOffice without headaches. If everybody uses MS OOXML, and only MS Office supports that perfectly, I'm going to be in trouble for using LibreOffice.
It would be even better for me to be able to say "sorry, I can't open docx files, please save it as odt", than always having to warn people that my changes might screw up the document.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 12, 2011 12:17 UTC (Wed) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> It would be even better for me to be able to say "sorry, I can't open docx files, please save it as odt", than always having to warn people that my changes might screw up the document.
Then just say it.
If OOXML support in LibreOffice is not good enough for you/your documents, then just do not use it and refuse OOXML documents. Do not bore your colleagues with your free software life and just tell them: "sorry, I can't open docx files, please save it as odt". They will thank you for this language approximation, way less extreme than trying to entirely remove the feature from the product!
Other people than you are happy with a "pretty good" only support. Yet other people are not happy but still want to see the feature to test it and report bugs and monitor its progress... generally speaking there are a number of well-known reasons to ship imperfect features; no need to elaborate here.
I think the only reasonable thing you can ask is a better labelling of the feature.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 24, 2011 8:51 UTC (Mon) by richardbrucebaxter (guest, #72540) [Link]
The problem is that .odt is not cross compatible either (at least using the inbuilt MS ODF filters). If OpenOffice manages to read a document saved in MS Office ODT format perfectly, when when it comes to sending back the modified .odt file to Microsoft Office, it is very likely not represent the original (formatting, drawings, etc). The same applies for .doc cross compatibility (and certainly for .docx compatibility - even Microsoft Office cannot make a docx out of a .doc without corrupting it; drawings, fonts, etc).
At this time, the only professional solution for implementation is to make a clear distinction between compatible and "semi-compatible" (which for anything but Standards/ISO neglected electronic office document formats is called "incompatible"). It would be better for any document processor (MS or open source) to be very clear with the user that at this time that they are not compatible with any documents produced by competiting document processors, regardless of the file format they are saved in.
Any document processor should at this time should be seen as either a viewer, or a one (and only) time exporter/importer of documents created using a different document processor. And its suitability as a one time importer or exporter is subject to a human being willing to fix up all of the inconsistencies.
The suggestion regarding OO/LO supporting both ISO OOXML and MS OOXML sounds reasonable - if only to make a point.
The clearer everyone is about the real level of document interopability that currently exists today and the circumstances which have lead to this (failure of Standards organisations and governmental support for electronic standards) the better. Alternatively, we should start encouraging the production of multiple gauge railway lines in society.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 15:06 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> 3. Write OOXML 'pretty well'
> This last option gives us the worst of both worlds: it further establishes OOXML as the standard format, and it further establishes MS Office as the only office suite that supports the standard format perfectly.
> (With "OOXML", I mean the format that MS implemented, not the one that was specified as an ISO standard.)
In reality the most correct approach is DWMD (Do What Microsoft Does).
Seriously. Nobody is ever going to follow the OOXML spec. It's just a joke of epic proportions. The only really correct thing to do is maintain compatibility with Microsoft software. Other people will do the same and then that will achieve the highest amount of interoperability from this 'worst of all worlds'.
Trying to fight and be 'correct' on OOXML just means that people will be less able to use OO.org. It effectively becomes a anti-feature.
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 11, 2011 16:19 UTC (Tue) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]
Unless some bored folks will come up with a separate "strict OOXML" export filter for LibreOffice which attempts to follow the ISO standard to the letter :-)
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 12, 2011 8:20 UTC (Wed) by shmget (subscriber, #58347) [Link]
And such patches would most likely be accepted.
Actually they would be a nice addition to illustrate the difference with the so called OOXML 'standard' and the MSXML format that is really in use in Redmond
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 18, 2011 11:01 UTC (Tue) by geofft (subscriber, #59789) [Link]
What happens if (as widely suspected) it is either impossible to write OOXML perfectly, or it turns out that Office only implements OOXML "pretty well"? In either case, Office is entrenched enough that the standard doesn't matter, and people will see LO as poorly implementing an Office format.
Fortunately, this means that "LO implements the spec perfectly and Office doesn't" is indistinguishable from "LO and Office both implement the spec imperfectly in different ways". (Well, in the absence of a major competitor that does do OOXML perfectly, but there isn't one.)
Supporting OOXML in LibreOffice Posted Jan 18, 2011 13:09 UTC (Tue) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link]
In that case, LO writes MS Office OOXML, not standard OOXML too? Surely? As you say, nobody gives a fig about the supposed standard, just MS Office compatibility.
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