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Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
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Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 18:15 UTC (Thu) by openhacker (subscriber, #1614) [Link]
hmmmm...wonder if they should hire some informed "talent"to help them -- instead of reaching their own conclusions
based on their lack of knowledge ;-)
I don't pretend to be a windows expert, but whenever I asked
an SA why a windows machine was acting funny, seems the answer is:
"It must be a virus" and "reinstall"
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 18:41 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]
In general, Windows admin's are:
- discouraged from coding
- encouraged to buy software do meet every need
- discouraged from having a multi-platform viewpoint
- encouraged to use Microsoft VB for everything
On top of that, Microsoft moves data into their proprietary formats at every convenience. This means that there's absolutely *nothing* transparent about the material going through any pipeline once it crosses into any Microsoft domain.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I was a Microsoft booster in the early '90s at my shop, and ever since they started attacking Netscape, they've done nothing but make me regret it.
...and I hope one of them (or several) are reading this.
Until they lay off Linux and other free alternatives to their stuff, or start learning to treat others the way Microsoft would like themselved to be treated, they will never have me in their camp again.
...and if this keeps up much longer, I will publicly state it, using my full name, address, and all the rest. I'm getting really sick of this.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 19:20 UTC (Thu) by lnx3733t (guest, #13532) [Link]
amen ccchips!i believe that microsoft is tring to gain too much of the marketshare. they already have too much money and are being more and more greedy everyday. i refuse to use a microsoft product myself(i however build systems that use them) linux is good for so many things nowadays and it's desktop is evolving making it easier to use. i suggest to anyone who is serious about boycotting M$ download one of thoes cd distro's and when you go somewhere that doesn't use linux pop it in and show people what they're missing. M$ shouldn't be allowed to kill all of their competition which is what they are tring.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 3, 2003 1:10 UTC (Sun) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]
Bad mouthing M$ is easy fun but it's not going to change anything.If you present GNU/Linux just as an alternative to Windows, you will be told:
0. the lack of M$ Word format is too much of an inconvenience
1. people don't want to relearn software
2. people don't want to lose their configuration settings
3. etc.
To bring people from the dark side, they have to be shown why GNU/Linux is infinitely better than Windows (or MacOS, or Unix). Tell them about Free Software.
They'll say: "but I'm not a programmer, what good is source code to me?"
You can say: "It's not important that YOU have the freedom to change the code, it's that EVERYONE has the freedom to change the code. Proprietary software is engineered to be Just Good Enough that you will buy it but it must leave you wanting to buy more. In contrast, Free Software developers have to make their software as good and useful as possible so that someone else won't just make a more popular fork."
The lack of M$ compatibility is a small problem really, most office formats are supported by OpenOffice (especially the upcoming 1.2 release). This slight shortcoming is greatly outweighed by the number and variety of applications you get with Free Software distros.
Ciaran O'Riordan
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 19:08 UTC (Thu) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
humm,.. i belive they are pretty confused!... at least it sounds like...DONT BET ON A M$ LINUX... EVER!
They are only figuring out better,... whys??..., and better ways to try to destroy it!!,...
Many would say that there is time to M$ to change, but if all the zillions of media articles, have some of truth, M$ are going to close themselfs and its users behind .NET/PALLADIUM/NGSPB/LONGHORN..., perhahps, more than one step for a HEAVLY DRM GUARDED COMPUTER PLATFORM, but with all certainty a "PC" where only M$ can play.
THAT IS WHY HARDWARE SUPPORT FOR LINUX, IS MORE IMPORTANT NOW THAN EVER!
With all the technologies falling behind it, kobjects, sysfs, dinamyc device plug and unplug..., i belive that is time for Gnu/Linux, Open Standards Group(LSB), the "new" Open Group" (owner of Unix Trademark) to came together and define also a new "COMPUTER PLATFORM CERTIFICATE", based on Open/Linux Bios and other "open only standards" like ACPI, and where DRM could be allowed but only with a guarantied ability to shut it completly off.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 21:03 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]
Far be it for me to disagree, considering what they did to Netscape and to Gary Kildall and friends (not that Apple is clean on that score, either.)However, IBM (seems to have) changed, so I'll keep an open mind.
....and an ear to the ground.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 3:58 UTC (Fri) by piman (subscriber, #8957) [Link]
DRM that can be shut off is no good; either it means that content publishers will release for DRM that can't be shut off, or shutting off the DRM will prevent you from using the content (this is how Palladium works, basically). The only real solution is to eliminate DRM completely; since we can't prevent people from coding DRM, instead, we need to make it legal to crack DRM. The real solution isn't to develop an "open DRM platform", but to oppose the DMCA or similar laws.Interesting that chose ACPI as an open standard; It is, but Microsoft was also heavily involved in its creation. Generalizations get you nowhere.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 19:18 UTC (Fri) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
NO, NO, f??k applications and OSes that depend exclusivly on DRM,... the idea of allowing them is only because some people might need them... dont forget that, now is clear, that you can have a superior server and a superior desktop based only on "open-Source"!... and you dont put DRM in an application that has the code "open" because it dosent make sense!, and much less for "Open-Format" content(web, pictures,sound, video),... it only makes sense in cases of allowing Open Source to communicate with applications and content that have DRM but provide a "PUBLIC KEY or LINUX KEY" - ( i'm thinking of photoshop,web, pictures,sound, video,...)If applications and content that have DRM but do not communicate whit other applications and content whitout DRM (opposite of all Open-Source applications and all Open-Format content), "IS THE GENERAL STANDARD" than M$ has already won, a "we" better start to dismantle WWW consortium, GNU, OSDL,... because using computers is, at least, from the very beginning a flud of private keys autentication... and theres no "CRACKING" that can save it!
But if things go better for the public side, you'll have "Open" dominating and you can have DRM, because no one, beside M$, is going to close himself in the cold.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 21:40 UTC (Thu) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link]
This can't be a good sign. If MicroSoft is making that deeply detailed a study of Linux internals, my suspicion is that they are looking for ways to impair interoperability on the Internet. If they find a way to subtly "customize" their Internet protocols to totally hose any *nix/Linux systems trying to talk to them, while keeping within the letter of the open standards for such protocols, they'll gain a selling point. Does anyone rememember "MicroSoft Kerberos"?
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 23:31 UTC (Thu) by euvitudo (subscriber, #98) [Link]
*sigh*I look forward to the day that we (i.e., the FLOSS community) are not "following the leader". Hopefully the trend we have seen this year, of more FLOSS adoption, will continue and increase.
If your comment is true, then maybe that day will be fairly soon. As more companies and users adopt FLOSS, MS will have to learn to interoperate properly with FLOSS systems rather than find ways to shut them out, or be left out in the cold.
However, history as shown that as corporations become very big, their interest in the common good and well-being of their own clients diminishes. When this happens, their vision becomes "how much money can we extract from our customers with minimal update to our current product" rather than "how can we MAKE a better product for our customers".
Hopefully when the FLOSS movement gains ground and becomes the leading motivator for standards compliance in software and hardware systems, then we will finally see the corporations gain more interest in what their users truly want.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 10:05 UTC (Fri) by beejaybee (subscriber, #1581) [Link]
"If they find a way to subtly "customize" their Internet protocols to totally hose any *nix/Linux systems trying to talk to them"What about the Java fiasco?
Are M$ actually shipping a standards-compliant Java with Internet Explorer yet, or just their own broken version?
How many e-commerce sites have you come across that won't work with Opera/Mozilla/Netscape because they have been coded to use only M$'s broken version of Java? I'm aware of quite a few ... when contacted, the web admins of these sites (at least, the few who bother to reply) state that their concern is for the majority market, they're simply not (much) worried if a few "screwballs" can't use their site.
It's already happened.
Anti-trust legislation has been tried but hasn't worked. In any case, by the time the legal process has ground to its conclusion, the point is moot, as technology has moved on & M$ have a virtual monopoly. So M$ are free to continue to tighten their stranglehold.
Any ideas?
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 12:02 UTC (Fri) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link]
Those Web admins could have come from the Merrimack Valley! :-) Anyway, this should be a heads-up to programmers to develop analysis tools that can detect "lock-in features" that MicroSoft servers will one day be adding to their servers' protocols.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 14:10 UTC (Fri) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]
Make more effort to prevent dumbo's from voting for the likes of Ralph Nader next time?
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 14:16 UTC (Fri) by lpbbear (guest, #4827) [Link]
If more "dumbos" had voted for Ralph Nader we wouldn't be worrying about Microsoft right now. :)
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Jul 31, 2003 21:58 UTC (Thu) by macemoneta (guest, #2717) [Link]
"The end-to-end scenarios is where things don't work quite as well with Linux"Well then, the solution is simple. Remove the Microsoft software that's causing the problem and replace it with properly functioning open source software.
Problem solved.
As an extra bonus, interoperability with Macs is improved too. Microsoft decided to drop Appletalk support from Windows XP, but Linux still has Netatalk.
More and more Microsoft isn't the solution, it's the problem. I don't have high expectations that their new lab will figure that out.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 9:30 UTC (Fri) by stuart (subscriber, #623) [Link]
Quite. And to be honest who cares....it's just gonna be another M$ FUD center, with even less credibility than Gartner.Stu.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 12:55 UTC (Fri) by dbhost (guest, #3461) [Link]
This is newsworthy how?Microsoft has had various Linux distributions and OSS installed in lab environments since I believe 1997. If you think Microsoft is considering building and shipping their own distro you need to stay off the smoke for a while... it ain't gonna happen. This is most likely nothing more than an attempt to funble through an inept setup of a Linux network, set it next to a fully tweaked Windows network, and then brag how Windows will run faster or some crap like that. You know this would be like Ford comparing the latest Mustang GT against a top of the line Lamborghini, and pulling four of the Lambo's spark plugs before running the "unbiased" tests. This is a whole lotta nothing.
move along
Posted Aug 1, 2003 14:39 UTC (Fri) by Peter (guest, #1127) [Link]
This is newsworthy how?
It's not, agreed.
I'll go further. Come on, people, there is nothing unusual or suspicious about an OS vendor having a Linux test lab. It is useful for running compatibility tests (ok, ok, so they could be aiming for incompatibility in some cases, but whatever), and usability tests, and just plain trying to figure out what features to add to the Windows server line.
This is no, repeat no different from Jody Goldberg running Microsoft Excel to get ideas for features and behaviors to add to Gnumeric. Or Samba developers running a network of various Windows boxes in order to do research and testing. Or Mozilla developers installing Opera to see what innovations they might wish to copy. (Yes, as it happens, I do have a pet peeve with people talking about how innovative the Open Source process is and demonstrating this mainly with Mozilla's Opera-esque features. Thanks for asking.)
Basically all this "news" means is that Microsoft takes Unix and Linux seriously as a competitor, and they want to make sure they can compete effectively on the basis of features in the latter. There's nothing wrong with this, fear-mongering about monopolistic practices aside.
move along
Posted Aug 1, 2003 22:01 UTC (Fri) by dsime (guest, #5764) [Link]
What makes you so sure that they aren't looking for innovations to invent or maybe some good patentable algorithms?
move along
Posted Aug 3, 2003 11:40 UTC (Sun) by Peter (guest, #1127) [Link]
What makes you so sure that they aren't looking for innovations to invent or maybe some good patentable algorithms?
Let 'em look. Linux systems have nothing to hide. As for "inventing" innovations, it's not like anyone other than the trade rag journalists actually believes they invent anything anymore.
And as for new patents, it's kind of hard to enforce a patent against an implementation older than your file date. (And thanks to the open development process, this is pretty easy to document.) So - let 'em file the patent - it won't be enforceable (read: relevent) anyway.
To be honest it's a bit funny hearing open source proponents get all hot and bothered about a proprietary software company potentially chasing their taillights. (:
move along
Posted Aug 8, 2003 23:22 UTC (Fri) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link]
Another idea just occurred to me: Maybe MicroSoft is studying a GNU server setup so they can work out a way to remotely turn it off, just like those new programs they're going to sell. Or maybe they are trying to figure out how to write a source file with code that will crash the server on command, a very secret command, and then get someone to submit the file as a contribution to the Kernel. New kind of "poison pill".
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 1, 2003 22:21 UTC (Fri) by idansof (guest, #13582) [Link]
What Microsoft are doing is dangerous, as we all know, the GPL is a virus,what happends if it starts infecting their employees?
I suppose they use protective gear, gloves, sunglasses etc, and make sure to
take proper medicines on a daily basis, but what happends if these
accidently fail, or worse, someone intentionaly infects himself with the
virus?
It will start with some minor ranks proposing to extend the "shared source"
initiative, and soon some Microsoft engineers will start whispering dirty
words such as "free software", and "open standards".
Slowly the disease will spread, and but the time the few who are naturally
immuned(such as Balmer and McBride) will understand what's going on, it will
be too late.
Microsoft's products will become fully GPL'ed(with 50 security advisories a day
in the first month), SCO's stocks will fall like an airplane that ran out of
fuel, and a statue of RMS will be placed in front of every Microsoft branch.
Oh, what a sweet fantasy:-)
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 2, 2003 0:22 UTC (Sat) by cdeanmontana (guest, #13584) [Link]
Guys Microsoft is the Gorilla. We are the chimps as far as they are concerned. One of the things that need to happen is Linux folks need to band together. I've been in the biz for twenty years. 2 seems to be the tolerable number in this field. Others die. The question really is, is it going to be SCO & Microsoft, Red Hat & Microsoft, BSD & Microsoft, Mandrake & Microsoft, Lindows & Microsoft, Apple & Microsoft or Linux & Microsoft? This publicity for Microsoft is a future play into Apple/SCO. The processor in Mac's is superior to Intel's and no one really argued this, take a closer look at it's numerical superiority. Now if Microsoft needs a quick fix to bring apple under it's hood, with SCO as a carbuerator, the engine is surely going to be superior to GPL at the start. GPL can catch up but it's being setup to loose some races. Now if that isn't enough Microsoft has stolen a little nitro. Better read last months headlines Linux Guru's. How many anti-virus programs are there for Linux. Who's the player? Research this. Now there is only one thing to keep the GPL engine running, that's unity, not a time for greed. Linux better get on the stick with Voice Technology, and better Tablet marketing.
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 3, 2003 1:45 UTC (Sun) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]
We do need unity, but what should we unite around?What is it that makes our OS special.
Is it that it is based on the Linux kernel?
Or is it that it is Free Software?
We are getting a lot of attention at the moment. Many proprietary software vendors are porting their software to our OS but they're not releasing it as Free Software. It's no good having a Free OS and running a bunch of proprietary applications on it.
"Linux" is a misnomer. Linux is a kernel, not an OS. If you think the OS is "Linux" then you should know that you can setup a "Linux" box without using Linux at all. The GNU OS can run on the FreeBSD kernel. If I replace Linux kernel with the FreeBSD kernel, what is my OS called? Linux?
GNU is the OS. It comes in three kernel varietys: GNU/Linux, GNU/Hurd, and GNU/FreeBSD. (the Hurd still lacks a few features, GNU/FreeBSD works but it's pretty new so few use it so far)
We need Free Software. To make it easy for people to hear about Free Software, we should tell them about the GNU project.
Ciaran O'Riordan
Microsoft Takes Linux For A Test Drive (TechWeb)
Posted Aug 3, 2003 2:12 UTC (Sun) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link]
It concerned me less whether I could rebuild StarOffice and more that it would read and write my M$-generated files on my GNU system. I'm sure if I stuck a SCO or Sun box on my LAN it wouldn't pick a fight with my other machines, whatever the shortcomings seen in those products. When MicroSoft decides to play nice among other OS's instead of being the Fat Cat, THEN I might be interested in more of their software.