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The FSF should not substitute pressure group tactics for reason

The FSF should not substitute pressure group tactics for reason

Posted Sep 26, 2010 4:31 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
In reply to: The FSF should not substitute pressure group tactics for reason by coriordan
Parent article: FSF says: USPTO should publish guidelines excluding software patents

By saying that even an application failing the machine-or-transformation must be patentable, the SCOTUS made it clear that even after hearing concerns over software patents in some submissions, it's fully behind them. By refusing to take a line on business methods in general, it's clear that the SCOTUS sees the line somewhere between less abstract and mroe abstract business methods.

Again, consider that there were some anti-swpat submissions, and the Court knew there were expectations by this camp to do something about them by establishing strict tests. But the Court didn't even support the way the first instance applied the result of the MoT test.

Saying it's an "unclear ruling" in terms of software patents is not right. It's clear enough that the SCOTUS doesn't have any intention to restrict the patentability of software as far as technical inventions are concerned. It listened to the input of those favoring abolition and didn't do anything for them. Not even the Stevens minority opinion...


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The FSF should not substitute pressure group tactics for reason

Posted Sep 26, 2010 16:18 UTC (Sun) by linuxrocks123 (guest, #34648) [Link]

You're too negative. Bilski specifically did not endorse State Street, which was one of the worst decisions to open the floodgates. A lot depends on what lower courts do now.

Don't believe those who refuse to concede the major defeat Bilski was

Posted Sep 26, 2010 16:51 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

You're too negative. Bilski specifically did not endorse State Street, which was one of the worst decisions to open the floodgates. A lot depends on what lower courts do now.

I'm not being too negative. Knowledgeable people who don't have any spin-doctoring intentions would all agree with me. There are a few websites out there trying to confuse people like you, such as GroklXX or the FFII.

State Street opened the floodgates for business method patents. It wasn't needed in any way to open the floodgates for technical software patents.

It's absolutely clear that the SCOTUS was perfectly aware of the software patent situation and simply didn't consider anything to restrict the patentability of software as far as technical innovation (not just business methods) is concerned.

The key thing is that the SCOTUS positioned itself firmly in the pro-software-patent camp. It threw out the Bilski application but it also overthrew the CAFC's (previous instance) approach, which was that an application failing the machine-or-transformation (MoT) test must be rejected. Even software patents, such as the ones granted by the European Patent Office all the time, can pass MoT. But to do away with software patents, you need to reject all patent applications failing to pass MoT and then still have ways to reject many of those who pass MoT. Diametrically opposed to that, the SCOTUS said in its Bilski decision that even an application failing to pass MoT must still get more bites at the apple (more opportunites to get a patent granted).

So the anti-software-patent camp at least wanted the CAFC decision to be upheld (like I said, that would not be sufficient, but it would have been a first step), or ideally an even stricter standard to be introduced on this occasion, but the SCOTUS -- well aware of those demands but apparently not impressed by them at all -- walked in the very opposite direction and instead said that even failure to pass MoT doesn't mean a patent application must be rejected.

Another way to look at is that business method patents are an even more extreme kind of patent than technical software patents in terms of not representing an advance in an applied natural science. That's why even most of those favoring technical software patents are opposed to business method patents (examples: IBM, Google, Microsoft).

So to do away with even a part of technical software patents, one would at least have to do away with all business method patents and would then still have a long way to go and face an uphill battle -- but it would at least be a starting point. Contrary to starting abolition, the SCOTUS even failed to agree on the exclusion of business method patents. It said clearly that only Congress has the authority to promulgate such limitations.

Don't believe those who refuse to concede the major defeat Bilski was

Posted Sep 26, 2010 20:53 UTC (Sun) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]

"SCOTUS positioned itself firmly in the pro-software-patent camp"

I don't think that is strictly true. The Supreme Court, when acting responsibly, tries to decide the way it does based on the dictates of law, whether statutory or constitutional. In this case they couldn't find any statutory reason to exclude software patents, a couple of statutory reasons to include them, so they ruled accordingly. Cost benefit analysis, or really obscure arguments about mathematics aren't normally in the purview of the courts. That is what Congress is for.

Don't believe those who refuse to concede the major defeat Bilski was

Posted Sep 26, 2010 20:55 UTC (Sun) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

I admit that my wording about pro-software-patent camp was potentially misleading. Of course it's reasoning was not a political or philosophical one, but a legal one just like you described it.

Don't believe those who refuse to concede the major defeat Bilski was

Posted Sep 27, 2010 8:38 UTC (Mon) by linuxrocks123 (guest, #34648) [Link]

Wikipedia disagrees with you. I believe them over you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_Unite...

---linuxrocks123

Don't believe those who refuse to concede the major defeat Bilski was

Posted Sep 27, 2010 8:52 UTC (Mon) by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048) [Link]

You just say Wikipedia disagrees but I can't see how and why. Would you please quote something from Wikipedia and quote something from me and explain why you think there's a contradiction? Then we can have a facts-based discussion.

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