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Mageia - a Mandriva fork

From:  Jerome Quelin <jquelin-AT-gmail.com>
To:  Mandriva Cooker <cooker-AT-mandrivalinux.com>
Subject:  forking mandriva
Date:  Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:31:50 +0200
Message-ID:  <20100918163150.GB6504@mongueurs.net>

hi list,

word is spreading fast: mandriva is being forked.

from http://mageia.org -

As you may have heard, the future of the Mandriva Linux distribution is
unclear.

Most employees working on the distribution were laid off when Edge-IT was
liquidated. We do not trust the plans of Mandriva SA anymore and we don't think
the company (or any company) is a safe host for such a project.

Many things have happened in the past 12 years. Some were very nice: the
Mandriva Linux community is quite large, motivated and experienced, the
distribution remains one of the most popular and an award-winning product, easy
to use and innovative. Some other events did have some really bad consequences
that made people not so confident in the viability of their favourite
distribution.

People working on it just do not want to be dependent on the economic
fluctuations and erratic, unexplained strategic moves of the company.

** Forking Mandriva Linux? Yes.

Forking an existing open source project is never an easy decision to make, and
forking Mandriva Linux is a huge task.

It was not an impulsive decision. We all spoke a lot before: former employees,
Cooker contributors and users' communities. We collected opinions and reactions
in the past weeks as we needed to get some kind of global agreement and to
gather, before going ahead.

We believe a fork is the best solution and we have decided to create a new
distribution: Mageia.

** New grounds.

Mageia is a community project: it will not depend on the fate of a particular
company.

A not-for-profit organization will be set up in the coming days and it will be
managed by a board of community members. After the first year this board will
be regularly elected by committed community members.

This organization will manage and coordinate the distribution: code & software
hosting and distribution, build system, marketing, foster communication and
events. Data, facts, roadmaps, designs will be shared, discussed through this
organization.

We will discuss and lay down details in the coming days.

Mageia distribution will be what the board makes it to be, with the help and
contribution of the whole community. We already have ideas and plans for this
distribution; we want to:

  . make Linux and free software straightforward to use for everyone;

  . provide integrated system configuration tools;

  . keep a high-level of integration between the base system, the desktop
    (KDE/GNOME) and applications; especially improve third-parties (be it free of
    proprietary software) integration;

  . target new architectures and form-factors;

  . improve our understanding of computers and electronics devices users.

You certainly have your ideas too. We will take the time to share these.

** Community.

We understand the Mageia community as:

  . users,
  . makers (designers, developers, packagers, translators, testers, etc.),
  . advocates.

Those can be individuals, organizations, companies from all over the world.

There are challenges here; so many countries, so many languages, so many
cultures, so different needs. And that's great.

We've seen with the Mandriva Assembly experiment that it's not an easy task. We
believe we can make it better yet.

** People.

Whatever you do in life, people are your greatest and only true asset. And
Mageia aims to help people. Trust matters. We are only at the very beginning of
this fork. It won't be easy. But we believe it to be necessary.

    Ahmad Samir (ahmad78) - Mandriva contributor (bug triage team, packaging)
    Anne Nicolas (ennael) - former Mandriva employee (was packaging, release manager, community
management)
    Anssi Hannula (Anssi) - Mandriva contributor (packaging, translations)
    Arnaud Patard (rtp) - former Mandriva employee (was kernel hacker)
    Christophe Fergeau (teuf) - former Mandriva employee (was urpmi, drakxtools, rpm, gcc, ...)
    Colin Guthrie (coling) - Mandriva contributor (Pulse Audio, packaging)
    Damien Lallement (dams) - former Mandriva employee (was QA manager)
    Erwan Velu - Mandriva contributor (packaging, hardware enabling)
    Félix Martos - Blogdrake admin
    Guillaume Rousse (guillomovitch) - Mandriva contributor (packaging, mirror tools)
    Jérôme Quelin (jq) - Mandriva contributor (Perl, packaging)
    Michael Scherer (misc) - Mandriva contributor (build system, Python, packaging)
    Nicolas Vigier (boklm) - former Mandriva employee (was working on build system, packaging,
mandriva research projects)
    Olivier Blin (blino) - former Mandriva employee (was Drakxtools, installer, Perl, boot, ...)
    Olivier Mejean (goom) - French users community
    Olivier Thauvin (Nanar) - Mandriva contributor (packaging, mirrors)
    Pascal Vilarem (maat) - French users community
    Romain d'Alverny (rda) - former Mandriva employee (was information system manager)
    Séverine Wiltgen (sevalienor) - former Mandriva employee (was professional support, server
stack)
    Thierry Vignaud (tv) - Former Mandriva employee and contributer (Drakxtools, installer, Perl,
packaging)
    Thomas Backlund (tmb) - Mandriva contributor (kernel hacker, translations)
    Wolfgang Bornath (wobo) - German users community

For other contributors: if you want your name to be added to the list,
indicating that you plan to follow the fork, let us know on IRC channel, or by
email.  Next.

We are looking for many different things in the next days:

  . hardware for code hosting, build servers + datacenters to host these servers;
  . developers, contributors, translators, testers to invest into the development of Mageia;
  . counsels on building the organization and its processes, etc.

Your help and support will be very much appreciated.


thank you for reading this far, and hoping to see you follow us.
jérôme 
-- 
jquelin@gmail.com




to post comments

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 17:37 UTC (Sat) by branden (guest, #7029) [Link]

"Mageia is a community project: it will not depend on the fate of a particular company."

Wow--I remember when this characteristic was a major problem with Debian, not an essential feature.

Good luck, guys.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 18:37 UTC (Sat) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link] (31 responses)

Mostly off-topic, but... can someone outline what the prime motivation is for using Mandriva/Mageia over Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Gentoo, etc. is? It's been many, many years since I last used Mandriva (in fact, it was still Mandrake back then, and we rolled it out onto the issued laptops given to all the elected officials at a particular gov't facility). There hasn't been much news or interesting new tech/software coming out of Mandriva for a few years now, that I recall. So, in a sea of Linuxen, what's Mandriva/Mageia's gimmick? Ubuntu has their supposed user friendliness, Fedora has its cutting-edgeness, Arch and Slackware have their old-school simplicity, Debian has their DFSG+democracy... what's Mageia going to give users that other distros don't?

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 18:56 UTC (Sat) by anshulajain (guest, #70172) [Link] (15 responses)

Mandriva/Mageia has
1. The best control center for configuration- the MCC
2. Probably the best package manager for RPM distros- urpmi (sorry yum is slow as hell and zypper is confusing when clubbed with multiple repos)
3. A KDE which is on as good as, if not better than openSUSE
4. Still the best distro for a newcomer to Linux.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 8:19 UTC (Sun) by ofeeley (guest, #36105) [Link] (2 responses)

"sorry yum is slow as hell"

Do you have an factual comparison for that statement? If not then it would be nice not to repeat this often stated but unsupported rumor. Quite possibly you are not running yum against its cache (ie you are downloading repository metadata each time).

Back to the topic: good luck to the ex-Mandriva people. They've helped the rpm ecosystem a lot.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 13:45 UTC (Wed) by buchanmilne (guest, #42315) [Link] (1 responses)

Quite possibly you are not running yum against its cache (ie you are downloading repository metadata each time).

Yes, using 'yum -C search' or 'yum -C list' is quicker. But, then you can't use 'yum -C install'. So, if you want to install a package, which you *know* has all the required meta-data cached, yum will *always* download the new meta-data, and in many cases, waste more traffic doing that, than downloading the package and its dependencies.

However, besides some defaults which can be turned off with plugins, I still find yum's conflict/obsoletes resolution very poor, compared to urpmi and smart. Since on package renames (e.g. when an upstream project has to change their name, due to fork or trademark issue), on Mandriva usually use provides/conflicts/obsoletes, rebuilding these packages for Fedora/RHEL/CentOS results in working packages, but yum mostly can't figure them out, so for me, use of yum is often in the role of 'download the package from the repo for me, so I use rpm to do the upgrades'.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 14:26 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

". Since on package renames (e.g. when an upstream project has to change their name, due to fork or trademark issue), on Mandriva usually use provides/conflicts/obsoletes, rebuilding these packages for Fedora/RHEL/CentOS results in working packages, but yum mostly can't figure them out"

Since Fedora uses provides/conflicts/obsoletes all the time and yum can figure out just fine, this statement requires a specific reference.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 9:58 UTC (Sun) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link] (9 responses)

>sorry yum is slow as hell and zypper is confusing when clubbed with multiple repos

What exactly is confusing, or is it just a limitation of the user? And if you have more than 6 repos, something is usually going wrong.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 11:16 UTC (Sun) by Darkmere (subscriber, #53695) [Link] (8 responses)

Huh?
rpmfusion
google-chrome
spot-chromium
adobe
firefox-nightly
official/updates/updates-testing ....

Suddenly it's way more than 6 already, just to try two browsers and have a working flash?

Sorry, I'll bite here and say that "If you have more than 20 you probably have issues" but 6 ought to be standard faire.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 11:38 UTC (Sun) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link] (7 responses)

rpmfusion? That does not sound anything like openSUSE.
6 it is for openSUSE: (oss, non-oss, update, contrib, packman, and 1 "free" to choose in case you _do_ miss something). 7 is also still ok iff you need it, but in most cases you don't. If you do, it's a sure sign your package(s) of desire should be included in the base distribution in the next release. (Short of any _development_ fluff like firefox-nightly or packages where the legal section has problems with.)

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 15:32 UTC (Sun) by anandrajan (guest, #146) [Link] (6 responses)

I have about 20 opensuse repositories enabled at the moment and a quick check reveals that I need most of them. Besides the usual 6 (or 7) I have many opensuse build service repositories (OBS) enabled: Education, Banshee, Mozilla, OpenOffice, GNOME 2.20, KDE 4.5, KDE Extra, KDE:Updated Apps, XFCE and Java. Since OBS regularly updates all the apps, I find it very useful. I have zypper/YaST set up to update to the new versions once a week.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 16:01 UTC (Sun) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link] (4 responses)

Sounds pretty much like you wanted Factory in the first place.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 16:38 UTC (Sun) by anandrajan (guest, #146) [Link] (3 responses)

Factory tends to break things too much to my liking. Also, I felt that if I ran Factory, I should switch to fedora which I tried but it didn't work out - hence the mix of some reliable OBS repositories along with the usual basic 7.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 16:49 UTC (Sun) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link] (2 responses)

But in essence, factory is composed of the submissions from develprojects like the ones you have.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 21:48 UTC (Sun) by anandrajan (guest, #146) [Link] (1 responses)

I don't need all of the updated packages in Factory. The instability problems I mentioned earlier stem from using the latest packages in Factory for everything. By using only certain OBS repositories, I can *automatically* update every package without too many worries. For example, right now I have GNOME:STABLE:2.30 and GNOME Apps disabled - based on some bad experiences - and it'll probably remain that way until the next version of opensuse (assuming there's one). Essentially, I act as a repository filter - bad experiences from certain repositories end up getting those repositories voted down (with priorities assigned values over 100) and then eventually disabled if necessary.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 5:25 UTC (Mon) by MKesper (subscriber, #38539) [Link]

In Debian, you have the possibility to use backports. While probably not that cutting-edge as Factory, you can get a stable system and some fresh applications on top of it.

I'd imagine that something like this might be an optimal use for gentoo, wouldn't it?

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 23, 2010 15:34 UTC (Thu) by cowsandmilk (guest, #55475) [Link]

I completely agree with you. I have 21 enabled. And have no desire to run factory.

I want gcc 4.5, I want KDE 4.5, I need the science, Education repos, libdvdcss has its own repo for some reason, I have a couple OBS repos from people who do research in the same area as me and keep the software up to date. It quickly adds up.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 1:41 UTC (Mon) by skvidal (guest, #3094) [Link]

For real information on yum's performance:

http://yum.baseurl.org/wiki/YumBenchmarks

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 13:23 UTC (Mon) by SEJeff (guest, #51588) [Link]

"""
2. Probably the best package manager for RPM distros- urpmi (sorry yum is slow as hell and zypper is confusing when clubbed with multiple repos)
"""

Perhaps 2 years ago I'd have agreed with you. The facts are that svidal and team did a lot of work to improve the speed of yum. Some people still don't get that "yum update" is equivalent to "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade". If you want something equivalent to "apt-get upgrade" or perhaps "apt-get dist-upgrade" try "yum -C update".

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 18:56 UTC (Sat) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

Mandriva has it's Frenchiness.

They had a interesting window manager concept made when Xorg got enough of it's act together to allow composited graphics for the first time, but that was the last time I saw anything come out of it.

http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 20:34 UTC (Sat) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] (12 responses)

I have found Mandriva to be much more suitable on the machines used in my academic research group than either RHEL or Fedora. It has also been excellent on my personal machines. There are many other research groups here that do use RHEL or Fedora, so I have had pretty good opportunity over the years to compare the ease of use and the suitability for the field of application. The goals, policies, and default system configuration for RHEL are, I assume, chosen to match a more corporate environment in which the bulk of the users are not highly computer literate and don't need to do things like compile code, manage tape (in the old days) and other external media stores, evaluate and run large scientific codes developed elsewhere, etc. On the other side, too many things in Fedora were just plain broken. Part of what drove us to Mandriva (then Mandrake) was bad experience with subtly broken compiler versions that were the default, perhaps only, ones provided by Redhat. When your video doesn't work, at least you know it immediately. When your scientific code breaks because of a bad compiler version, you may not realize it until much later. This is really bad. So basically we don't trust the quality control in Fedora.

Things I have been impressed with over the years. Let's see...

  • My Mandriva 2010 home desktop machine boots from power off to running the desktop in 24 seconds. I've been somewhat bemused by the recent discussions of needing improved boot speed. 2010.1 (although not earlier versions) runs my netbook with wireless, suspend/resume, multimedia all working out of the box. I'm not saying that other distros wouldn't do the same, I'm just commenting that Mandriva got it right. They do a good job of tailoring the distro for use on servers, individual desktops, and netbooks as well.
  • Multimedia "just worked" for many years, until premature adoption of PulseAudio broked everything in sight. That was a rare failure of quality control in choosing what made it into the default distribution.
  • The package management system (urpm) beats anything I've seen elsewhere.
  • It's field-specific, but the Mandriva repositories contain nicely packaged versions of some scientific applications that are a relative pain to install otherwise.
  • Primary focus on KDE
  • Excellent multi-language support.
  • Publicly visible development branch (Cooker) from which you can pull individual bleeding-edge packages to evaluate in advance of the regular release.
  • Default security settings that are roughly appropriate to lab use, unlike either RHEL or Fedora.

I've tried SuSE a couple of times and found it roughly compable, but I didn't install those machines myself so I don't have any feel for the pain or ease of configuration, setup, and maintenance. If Mageia fails, I'll probably look at SuSE more seriously. Ubuntu? Tried it at home; not particularly impressed.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 7:00 UTC (Sun) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link] (1 responses)

The "broken compiler" problem, as I recall, last occured before Fedora was born. In Fedora the problem has tended to be the opposite: that we are the first to switch to a newer GCC release, that progressively (especially for C++) enforces a stricter implementation of the language standards, and thus exposing old code that compiles fine under previous releases.

If there are any issue with the GCC we ship, we'd obviously want to hear about it and get it fixed. Please let us know at bugzilla.redhat.com

(Disclaimer: I'm a Fedora contributor, but I don't maintain GCC; my view reflects my experience periodically fixing some of the C++ apps that we maintain to comply with these stricter newer versions -- at every release starting with 4.3.0)

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 18:11 UTC (Sun) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link]

Yes, I remember that long-ago core gcc fiasco also. But I was specifically referring to numerically incorrect code produced by shipped versions of g77 and gfortran.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 19:18 UTC (Sun) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link] (9 responses)

* Multimedia "just worked" for many years, until premature adoption of PulseAudio broked everything in sight. That was a rare failure of quality control in choosing what made it into the default distribution.

There is also the unofficial PLF repository for Mandriva that gives an easy way to load all the multimedia codecs, decss etc that the distro does not date to ship itself. For other distros this kind of thing does not seem to exist, or is scattered among many repositories. At one point they tried to extend PLF to Ubuntu, but that apparently died for lack of volunteers.

Excellent multi-language support.

Cannot comment on other languages, but at least Mandriva has the best Finnish localization of any distro I have looked at, and I also noticed the Mageia announcement web page was already in multiple languages (Finnish included). If they can keep it up, it would be a distinct advantage outside the English speaking world. Geeks the world over can live with an English-only OS, but if you want "normal" people to seriously consider Linux for their daily use, it must speak their native language, and follow other local conventions flawlessly. In this matter distributions developed mostly outside the U.S. have an edge.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 6:17 UTC (Mon) by salimma (subscriber, #34460) [Link] (7 responses)

<i>There is also the unofficial PLF repository for Mandriva that gives an easy way to load all the multimedia codecs, decss etc that the distro does not date to ship itself. For other distros this kind of thing does not seem to exist, or is scattered among many repositories</i>

*Ahem* RPMFusion does the same for Fedora. I'll grant you that PLF came first though :)

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 6:38 UTC (Mon) by sitaram (guest, #5959) [Link] (6 responses)

not as far as I can tell; you still need livna just for decss, IME

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 6:48 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (5 responses)

Livna contains nothing but decss, separated for legal reasons. RPM Fusion for all practical purposes has the rest that Fedora does not.

And SUSE?

Posted Sep 21, 2010 4:53 UTC (Tue) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link] (2 responses)

What's the equivalent place/places for OpenSUSE? (In case I decide to jump ship, availability of "underground" repositories is one deciding factor in picking a distro)

And SUSE?

Posted Sep 21, 2010 19:40 UTC (Tue) by dmacvicar (guest, #55231) [Link] (1 responses)

Packages and images/products are created by the community in the most advanced "self-serving" build service available (including web front end as well as command line tools). It can build not only for openSUSE but also for Mandriva, Fedora, Debian, etc. The resulting packages, repositories and images are searchable. Also they can be accessed as raw repos. The Packman project contains multimedia pieces that can't go into the openSUSE hosted build service. And, worth to mention, you can also create your own spins/derivates with SUSE Studio and even boot them in your web browser.

And SUSE?

Posted Sep 24, 2010 6:34 UTC (Fri) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link]

you can also create your own spins/derivates with SUSE Studio and even boot them in your web browser.

Yes, SUSE Studio is fun (addictive, even...). Actually, it is the only way I have tasted SUSE so far, playing with creating a custom one-CD distribution. The boot in browser feature does not work too well if your keyboard does not have U.S. layout, and also is jerky, so I have not used it lately. But a nice demo anyway.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 13:56 UTC (Wed) by buchanmilne (guest, #42315) [Link] (1 responses)

PLF is reserved only for software in the same position as decss, software which cannot be distributed in all countries for legal reasons, such as software patents and DMCA.

On Mandriva, all your needs should be satisfied by the distribution repos (main,contrib,non-free) with different states (release,updates,backports), and if necessary, PLF.

Proliferation of repos is not a requirement for a good selection of packages. But, regarding zypper vs 6 repos, almost all Mandriva users probably have at least 6 repos anyway, with over 20 000 unique (but counting subpackages) packages.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 14:26 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

The difference is that Mandriva doesn't have to care as much about software patents as Fedora and Fedora has a strong Free software approach. So RPM Fusion is a third party repo that fills in the gaps.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 12:23 UTC (Mon) by ariveira (guest, #57833) [Link]

Ubuntu has medibuntu http://medibuntu.org/ for codecs dcss etc ...

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 23, 2010 15:44 UTC (Thu) by cdmiller (guest, #2813) [Link]

For several years we used Mandrake followed by Mandriva for servers. They had a great record for introducing security fixes in a very timely manner. The URPMI tools were simply the best suite for RPM management at the time. We had about zero RPM dependency problems. At the time they were superior to RedHat as a server distribution. The last Mandriva server we ran was at version 2008, a VM copy of it may be lurking about somewhere still...

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 18, 2010 19:18 UTC (Sat) by tonyblackwell (guest, #43641) [Link]

Mandriva has a mature community with a lot of support input from its users. A slick product which "just works". This sounds like a much-needed insurance policy for the future of a splendid product, bringing the focus back to the community.

(We are currently still well served in Mandriva maintenance by a much smaller number of surviving Mandriva employees and our thanks to their ongoing work in trying circumstances).

Of course the distribution doesn't "just work" without a lot of input - guess we'll all have to pitch in and contribute to Mageia where we can, help it to grow without the previous economic model.

PCLinuxOS

Posted Sep 19, 2010 2:42 UTC (Sun) by zeke123 (guest, #60445) [Link] (2 responses)

Ive been a fan since the mandrake days and even though Ive drifted in and out the past few years, Ive always downloaded the newest version even when I wasnt using Mandriva on any machine.... but PCLinuxOS became my go to KDE distro for friends and family about 2-3 years ago.

Im sad for Mandriva, happy for Mageia (love the name) but also wonder if I will even bother.
How is this going to be any different than PCLinuxOS?
Was there any contact with this well known Mandriva fork?
Why should I leave a successful offshoot for a brand new one?

Good luck to the separatistas and dont forget, it doesnt matter how good your distro is technically, that is NOT the reason it will become popular. All the extra curricular stuff that gathers 'buzz' is what does it. Your non-technical crews will have to do overtime in spreading the word in the english web. You can be as successful as Novell (hehe, humour is always good!) but if its not in english, les maudit anglais wont know about it.

As opposed to when Chicken Little aka SJVN called for his KDE3 fork in his hysterical panic attack, this fork makes sense from what little ive been able to gather on the topic. But Mandriva news in the english media is few and far between (the last time I think it was actually a topic was when Adam left mandriva and when the company backed out of LinuxTag I believe).
Your PR/Marketing/social media people have one hell of a job waiting them.

I think community involvement is primordial to a successful distro and no, OpenSuse/SUSE/Novell is NOT a good example. It is quite the opposite.
I look forward to seeing le logiciel libre getting a new boost of life.

Your move Mageiatistas.

PCLinuxOS

Posted Sep 22, 2010 3:57 UTC (Wed) by rickmoen (subscriber, #6943) [Link]

"zeke123" wrote:

How is this going to be any different from PCLinuxOS

My notes say:

  • PCLinuxOS uses apt. Mandriva/Mageia uses urpmi.
  • PCLinuxOS is a single-disk live CD with desktop focus. Mandriva has broader platform focus and has as its main edition a multi-disc install set.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com

PCLinuxOS

Posted Sep 22, 2010 14:38 UTC (Wed) by buchanmilne (guest, #42315) [Link]

<blockquote>
How is this going to be any different than PCLinuxOS?
</blockquote>

Actual community involvement (IMHO, real involvement in Mandriva was easier than PCLinuxOS, or, please show me public VCS for packages ...), and no reliance on any single entity for its survival.

<blockquote>
Was there any contact with this well known Mandriva fork?
</blockquote>

AFAIK, not yet, mainly because previous contact by the Mandriva community was rejected by the PCLinuxOS folk (Texstar was given a Mandriva contributor account, but AFAIK didn't ever commit any changes). However, other projects which do care more about upstream contribution (such as Unity Linux) have been contacted and have been involved in some of the discussions.

<blockquote>
Why should I leave a successful offshoot for a brand new one?
</blockquote>

IMHO, your current "successful offshoot" isn't sustainable without Mandriva, or at least the community of contributors who maintain the vast majority of packages. Since Texstar removes all changelogs and most comments from all packages (including all the packages I maintain in Mandriva's "main" repository), even ones he doesn't modify at all when syncing with Mandriva, you probably haven't noticed that yet.
<p>
Depending on what happens with Mandriva itself (e.g., one outcome is that it could become a downstream project), Texstar may be forced to cull his SRPMS from Mageia anyway.
<p>
(Feel free to compare some SPEC files from <a href="http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/pclinuxos/apt/pclinuxos/2010/SRP...">PCLOS's SRPMS</a> to those in <a href="http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/">Mandriva svn</a> if you don't believe me)

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 19, 2010 6:29 UTC (Sun) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link]

They say there's no one like your first. Well, Mandrake was my first Linux, and won't be forgotten.

But one of the things I've learned since then is what a difference a community vs company distribution makes. Community is what makes FLOSS FLOSS, Linux Linux and what makes a distribution what it is, and no company can really do the same thing. I'm really happiest contributing my part toward a community distribution, and I expect that's where I'll always be.

So I'm glad to see this community based fork. I'm personally happy with Gentoo, loving the power and choice it gives me, but of course I have friends. I look forward to the time Mageia's the community distribution I'm recommending to those who find a binary distribution more appropriate than the Gentoo I'm using. =:^)

Why?

Posted Sep 19, 2010 19:12 UTC (Sun) by DonDiego (guest, #24141) [Link] (2 responses)

What are the motivations for the fork? Nothing specific is being said, just vague hints...

Why?

Posted Sep 20, 2010 6:27 UTC (Mon) by AdamW (subscriber, #48457) [Link] (1 responses)

Er, what? Having most of the development team fired isn't a 'vague hint'. When a distribution which relies quite heavily on a full-time paid development team has most of that development team fired, something like this is pretty inevitable.

Why?

Posted Sep 20, 2010 6:42 UTC (Mon) by sitaram (guest, #5959) [Link]

Hey Adam,

You're going to jump back in, at least once in a while, for old-times sake? Most people remember you (I know I do!)

[sorry for using LWN for this, but it *is* on-topic in the sense that Adam experienced what he just said above, a lot earlier, and it wasn't clear why too.]

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 20, 2010 21:07 UTC (Mon) by xorbe (guest, #3165) [Link]

And the obvious ... the opportunity to change the name to something decent was rather squandered!

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 21, 2010 16:12 UTC (Tue) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (7 responses)

I wish people forking Linux distributions would take the opportunity to come up with pronounceable names that you could say to your boss without being embarrassed. Not that it could have got much worse than Man-driver (except, obviously, Linpus).

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 13:59 UTC (Wed) by buchanmilne (guest, #42315) [Link]

For Americans, spell Mandriva as Mandreeva, then maybe you have a chance at pronouncing it correctly.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 22, 2010 18:46 UTC (Wed) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link] (3 responses)

Depends on your language. Mandriva and Mageia sound reasonable if pronounced as Finnish words. Only Mageia resembles a real word: magia, or magic, not a bad connection.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 23, 2010 10:30 UTC (Thu) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (2 responses)

How would you pronounce it as a Finnish word?

I know this sounds flippant but I'm actually fairly serious about the point. I find it very frustrating trying to read about something when I keep stumbling over the word in my head.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 24, 2010 6:23 UTC (Fri) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link]

How would you pronounce it as a Finnish word?

I know this sounds flippant but I'm actually fairly serious about the point. I find it very frustrating trying to read about something when I keep stumbling over the word in my head.

I'm afraid I cannot explain it to you without sending an audio file, or by using the international phonetic alphabet, which I am not skilled with. All I can do is to try to explain why Finnish-speakers do not have the stumbling problem you describe. I assume your native language is English, which is well known for having an especially context-dependent (and sometimes irregular) relationship with letters and sounds. Finnish is at the other end of spectrum, it is written nearly phonetically, most of the time letters and sound values map 1-1. If a foreign or invented word like "mageia" does not contain letters that are never used in Finnish, and does not have unreasonable sequences of consonants (vowels are OK, we like them), it has an unique Finnish pronunciation. Both "Mandriva" and "Mageia" are easy cases for this rendering. For real foreign words, this pronunciation often has little relationship with how the foreigner would say it, but it makes remembering the word easier, and the spelling can be communicated to another Finn verbally.

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 24, 2010 14:16 UTC (Fri) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

As soon as a constructed word becomes obviously-not-even-trying-to-be-English, I rapidly revert to something approximating "Latin phonetic values filtered through the Anglophone vowel-reduction habit". The IPA for Mandriva and Mageia, uttered by me, works out roughly as [mændɹi:və] and [mægejə].

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Sep 24, 2010 3:51 UTC (Fri) by jiu (guest, #57673) [Link]

I fully agree with that, and I think the IllumOS people would have been well inspired to do the same. Even in French, Mandriva sounds bad (not as bad as in English though). Mageia has too many vowels

Mageia - a Mandriva fork

Posted Jul 1, 2011 12:12 UTC (Fri) by brunces (guest, #76178) [Link]

I know this is old, but I would just like to help with the pronunciation, if you don't mind. :)

The developers say you can pronounce it as you wish, but if you want to pronounce it correctly as it is, say:

/mah-JEE-ah/

MA = MAH - as in "mother", "Mariah".
GEI = JEE - only /jee/, without the sound of "D", I mean, not /djee/ as in "Jeep". (this is the stressed syllable)
A = AH - like the indefinite article, not /ay/ as the letter in the alphabet.

Portuguese, my native language, comes mostly from latin and greek. We have the word MAGIA which is pronounced the same way as in Greek and means the same too: MAGIC.

I hope this is useful. Cheers.

brunces


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