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Apple, n: 1. Arrogance Personified. 2. Object of cult-like worship.Apple, n: 1. Arrogance Personified. 2. Object of cult-like worship.Posted Aug 25, 2010 0:38 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)In reply to: Apple, n: 1. Arrogance Personified. 2. Object of cult-like worship. by Cyberax Parent article: EFF: Apple seeking to patent spyware
To be fair, Mac laptops are pretty open - they run on an OpenSource kernel. Only the GUI part is closed. You cannot run any Mac OS X applications on only the open-source bits, so the kernel is a curiosity, nothing more. But what upsets me is that every Mac laptop means more money for Apple, and that's a crying shame. Apple is no more deserving of FOSS advocates' money than Microsoft (maybe even less so.)
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There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 16:19 UTC (Wed) by sepreece (subscriber, #19270) [Link]
You can be a FOSS advocate without that being the only thing in the world that's important to you. Any purchase is going to be a balancing of many concerns, from environmental impact to how the physical design makes you feel about the device. FOSS hygiene is just another input to the equation.
Unless, of course, you've chosen the FOSS cult instead of the Apple cult. Most of us prefer to avoid cults.
There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 17:49 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] You can be a FOSS advocate without that being the only thing in the world that's important to you. Yes, of course. However, it's my opinion that Apple has swung so far to the dark side that it's a contradiction to claim to be a FOSS advocate and to purchase Apple products. Unless, of course, you've chosen the FOSS cult instead of the Apple cult. Most of us prefer to avoid cults. Freedom is not a cult.
There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 18:52 UTC (Wed) by sepreece (subscriber, #19270) [Link]
Freedom cannot be a cult; worship of freedom can.
There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 21:52 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Are you attempting to discuss an issue, or see who can come up with cuter sound bites? :) Apple has increasingly become the antithesis of everything FOSS stands for. To call yourself a FOSS advocate while sending money Apple's way is akin to a Vegan subsidizing the local beef marketing board.
There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 22:37 UTC (Wed) by sepreece (subscriber, #19270) [Link]
Sorry, my line was meant to be a nice line, but it really was in response to yours.
There is only a disconnect if one views FOSS, or veganism, as a philosophy or ethic. I have a friend who is a vegan and has been for years, but it's not a philosophical choice - he just prefers it. He doesn't feel guilty if he sometimes accidentally eats meat, he just prefers not to.
I support FOSS as a "Good Thing" and contribute money to some FOSS-related activities; I run a FOSS OS on one of my laptops. I think it's a good way to develop software. It is not, however, so central to me that I guide my life by its principles or feel guilty when I don't observe them. I have no moral/ethical objection to proprietary software or hardware, though there are some applications where I would insist on going FOSS.
So, I consider myself an advocate of FOSS while conceding that there are others who are much more fervent about it.
There is more than one cult here. Posted Aug 25, 2010 20:43 UTC (Wed) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link]
> Yes, of course. However, it's my opinion that Apple has swung so far to the dark side that it's a contradiction to claim to be a FOSS advocate and to purchase Apple products.
Many people still have mac laptops from before Apple swung so far over to the dark side. Back when they were just a company which created some closed source software and some open source software.
When did Apple go rotten? Posted Aug 25, 2010 21:55 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Interesting. When do you reckon Apple swung over to the dark side? I think it was when the iPhone came out, which would have been in early 2007. (Actually, they'd been moving darkward for some time before that, but the iPhone developer rules made it starkly clear.) I see many Mac notebooks at FOSS conferences that look younger than 3.5 years old.
When did Apple go rotten? Posted Aug 26, 2010 0:26 UTC (Thu) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link]
I'd say somewhere around mid-2008, when iPhone 3G / OS 2.0 came out, with the restrictive rules. Remember: the original iPhone didn't allow additional apps *at all* beyond what it shipped with. Everyone was expected to write webapps, which of course don't have restrictions on what they do.
And even then, it was somewhat possible to sort of justify it to yourself based on "it's just a phone, whatever, and you know, carriers are evil and stuff they had to, SRSLY!!". But now they've expanded the death grip onto a tablet device (and IMO likely will try to expand it further), I think it's a lot harder to make such a justification.
When did Apple go rotten? Posted Aug 28, 2010 2:06 UTC (Sat) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
How about iPod/iTunes and their "Fairplay" DRM rubbish.
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