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Classpath Exception not included in the mobile editionClasspath Exception not included in the mobile editionPosted Aug 20, 2010 10:08 UTC (Fri) by dgm (subscriber, #49227)In reply to: Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition by paulj Parent article: A very grumpy editor's thoughts on Oracle
But again, JavaME is NOT covered by that exception. Thus the only way for Google to stay in the clear would have been to use the _full_ JavaSE, not a subset.
With the emphasis put on leanness as shown in Dalvik design, I can guess this was just ruled out?
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Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition Posted Aug 20, 2010 10:39 UTC (Fri) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]
Again, your argument is defeated by the fact that what Google finally produced is a lot closer to JavaSE than JavaME (Harmony is a JavaSE not ME clone)
JavaME was written for the kind of phones the iPhone and Android stormed over: clunky, limited hardware where the software was an afterthought because the phone industry worried more about ringtones and MMS than about the user experience
It takes more than a ME moniker to define what's needed on a smartphone.
Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition Posted Aug 26, 2010 12:42 UTC (Thu) by willjcroz (guest, #62784) [Link]
AFAICT the use of JavaSE/Harmony libraries is complicated by the field of use restrictions issued by Sun for the OpenJDK JCK compliance test framework (required to 'comply' and get patent license). It's use on anything other than a standard computer on a desk is prohibited from what I have read.
See the open letter to Sun from Apache Harmony team:
http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletter.html
and its related FAQ:
http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletterfaq.html
From what I can find, Apache Harmony project's concerns have not been addressed. Unless you know otherwise, in which case please post details of how Sun addressed this.
Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition Posted Aug 27, 2010 11:41 UTC (Fri) by mjw (subscriber, #16740) [Link]
> AFAICT the use of JavaSE/Harmony libraries is complicated by the field of use restrictions issued by Sun for the OpenJDK JCK compliance test framework (required to 'comply' and get patent license). It's use on anything other than a standard computer on a desk is prohibited from what I have read.
There are no such field of use restrictions in the OpenJDK JCK:
> From what I can find, Apache Harmony project's concerns have not been addressed.
The problem with their concerns is that they are unverifiable because they did the "negotiations" in secrecy without involving the bigger libre java community. They probably really got a bad deal, but it is hard to help out if they keep the details hidden: http://gnu.wildebeest.org/blog/mjw/2007/04/21/openjck/
Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition Posted Aug 20, 2010 11:32 UTC (Fri) by mjw (subscriber, #16740) [Link]
> But again, JavaME is NOT covered by that exception. Thus the only way for Google to stay in the clear would have been to use the _full_ JavaSE, not a subset.
You seem to be confusing the "specification" with the "implementation" and what Android/Dalvik actually supports.
The full GPL implementation that Oracle/Sun distributes is called PhoneME: https://phoneme.dev.java.net/ https://phoneme.dev.java.net/source/browse/phoneme/legal/
The OpenJDK implementation under GPL (+ exception) that they distribute is an implementation of JavaSE.
Some of the specified libraries overlap (although there are some subtle differences in behaviour) but neither is a full subset or superset of the other.
An example of usage of both PhoneME, OpenJDK and GNU Classpath, JamVM or Cacao derived implementations on embedded devices is the Bug: http://community.buglabs.net/kgilmer/posts/45-BUG-OpenJDK
Another example that blurs the lines between SE and ME (and happily combines code from various free implementations, PhoneME, OpenJDK, GNU Classpath, Cacao, etc.) is MIDPath http://midpath.thenesis.org/bin/view/Main/
Android/Dalvik resembles the Java SE variant the most. It doesn't reall resemble any java variant directly. But it doesn't include anything in ME that is not in SE. It can be seen as a subset of the SE libraries, with specific Android libraries added. The implementation is designed to run well on small devices, but isn't JavaME like.
Classpath Exception not included in the mobile edition Posted Aug 22, 2010 5:00 UTC (Sun) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
It doesn't matter. Google are NOT using JavaME - they're using a subset of SE. So the OpenJDK GPL+CE implementation is there for their taking and should be acceptable - modulo the fact that Google don't seem to like the GPL much.
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