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GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

By Jake Edge
June 30, 2010

Various free software communities, from distributions to individual software projects, have codes of conduct that are meant to govern the behavior of their members, at least in the projects' common areas. The intent is to reduce friction—flamewars and other unproductive communication—between project participants and to present a more welcoming face to newcomers. The GNOME project has a code of conduct that it has been discussing for some time; more recently it has also taken up guidelines for speakers at GNOME conferences.

Based on the discussion, it seems clear that Richard Stallman's keynote at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit (GCDS) was one of the main reasons that some felt speaker guidelines were needed. His talk ended with a segment about "Emacs virgins" (or the "Saint IGNUcius comedy routine" as Stallman calls it) that was considered to be sexist and thus offensive by some in the community. Stallman has been reprising that particular bit for many years, and he, at least, doesn't see it as sexist. But it certainly offended some, and set off a firestorm of controversy last July.

Sometime after that, concerned folks contacted the GNOME Foundation board to see what could be done to try to prevent that kind of thing from happening again. As part of that effort, Matthew Garrett drafted guidelines, Murray Cumming "improved the wording", and Vincent Untz posted a link to the guidelines for discussion back in March.

That earlier draft was a bit different than the current, adopted version, but quite similar in spirit. In the discussion back in March, there was some wordsmithing about the "Dealing With Problems" section, but the draft was mostly well-received. Stallman, though, had a concern that the guidelines were overbroad:

The proposed speaker guidelines have a serious problem. Since they prohibit anything that makes someone uncomfortable, regardless of why, and since criticism of one's actions tends to make many people uncomfortable, the consequence is to prohibit serious criticism of any practice that is followed by someone in the audience.

Stallman noted that part of his GCDS talk was about the riskiness of using C#, but Sandy Armstrong was quick to point out that the guidelines were aimed at a different part of his presentation:

Richard, I'm fairly certain these guidelines are more about not making the audience uncomfortable when prominent speakers make sexist remarks, or remarks critical of religion, etc etc, especially when these remarks are completely off-topic.

I don't think they are meant to prevent you from making critical statements on relevant subject matter based on technical or legal arguments.

The discussion tailed off at that point, but was rekindled when Untz announced the final guidelines. Complaints about the guidelines seem to break down into two basic categories: that the rules are too vague, much as Stallman argued in March, or that they constitute "censorship" of speakers. While, strictly speaking, it may not be "censorship" (depending on which of the many definitions is used), it is certainly meant to steer speakers away from certain topics—those that might offend the audience or community.

Patryk Zawadzki doesn't like the vagueness, but thinks that there are other ways to address the problem:

It would be better if GNOME defined a precise set of rules (ie. "don't mention religion"). As for the hazy areas, common sense is a better judge than a set of written rules. If someone does something grossly inappropriate just don't invite them to further events.

The guidelines are somewhat vague, but that is done on purpose:

This is not a precise list of rules because the GNOME Foundation cannot predict all circumstances. These guidelines are not to be interpreted as prohibiting the serious raising of a bona fide technical, legal or ethical issue during a presentation.

There are six separate guidelines listed, some of which are, or should be, pretty obvious, for example: "Avoid things likely to offend some people. Your presentation content should be suitable for viewing by a wide range of audiences so avoid slides containing sexual imagery, violence or gratuitous swearing." Others, though, try to cut to the heart of the issue and, instead of proscribing conduct or topics, provide overarching advice:

A successful GNOME event involves everyone having fun. If someone in your audience is uncomfortable with something you've said, you're not doing your job. Apologize to them as soon as possible, and try to avoid the topic that triggered this for the rest of your presentation.

Stallman's earlier concern was addressed in the revision process, and he is firmly behind the guidelines: "If the community wants these guidelines, I support them." While the particulars of the GCDS keynote kept popping up in the discussion, it's clear that only a few really want to continue that particular debate. As Brian Cameron put it in a message worth reading in its entirety:

Over the past 2.5 years that I have been on the board, the board has been asked to help address a situation where someone has been offensive at least a half-dozen times. The Speaker Guidelines were created to help deal with this class of problems, not to deal with any particular person who may have been offensive at any particular time.

There is something of a sense of resignation to the fact that a policy like this is needed. But, as Cameron noted, the board has been criticized for how quickly and effectively it has responded to offensive presentations in the past. The guidelines provide a solid footing for any action the board may wish to take in the future; one possibility is explicitly mentioned: "Furthermore, if necessary, the GNOME Foundation might publicly distance itself from your opinions." Michael Meeks summed up the situation well:

But it does seem a little silly to need a policy at all. Ultimately, I guess we need to accept and live with the fact that ~everyone is unbalanced in some way, and has some or other noxiously offensive opinion, and perhaps provide some interactive booing & hissing / sharp questions from the audience at times ;-)

The final "Dealing With Problems" section is the part of the document that has drawn most of the comments this time around. Joanmarie Diggs is concerned that parts of that section are "neither 'positive' nor 'welcoming' to would-be speakers". In particular, the "disclaimer" paragraph, which is meant to head off anticipated complaints, may be reworked. There seems to be a consensus that changes are needed in that section, though it's not clear whether it should be expanded to fill in the gaps, reworked in more welcoming terms, or eliminated entirely. As Cameron said, the guidelines will likely be a "living document", and if there are problems with it, changes will be made.

While there is no specific enforcement language in the document ("Enforcement is subject to the judgment of the session overseer"), Garrett, at least, sees that as a possible hole. His original draft "suggested that event runners be able to stop presentations if they felt they were gratuitously in breach of the guidelines", but that was contentious and was removed. He is concerned that "guidelines mean little without enforcement", but does see the current language as a reasonable compromise. As he notes, there are those who will find the current watered-down version to be too intrusive, so something of a balance has been struck between the needs of speakers and their audiences.

There have been plenty of examples of presentations made at free software conferences that offended some subset of their audience. As it is unlikely that the speakers set out to do that, guidelines like these will be helpful to speakers by making them at least stop and think about their words and imagery. That is likely to lead to better presentations and happier audiences, which can only be a good thing.



to post comments

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 0:56 UTC (Thu) by myopiate (guest, #41091) [Link]

Perhaps a list of audience guidelines would be more appropriate.

Rough personalities and misconceptions about religion/race/sex are unavoidable. People are sensitive. The only safe option is to just not talk at all.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 2:06 UTC (Thu) by Lukehasnoname (guest, #65152) [Link] (11 responses)

"And we also have the cult of the virgin of Emacs. The virgin of Emacs is any female who has not yet learned how to use Emacs. And in the church of Emacs we believe that taking her Emacs virginity away is a blessed act."

--Richard Stallman

He's making a joke off of religious sacrifice. There is no implication that women are inferior (unless you inherently think religion promotes feminine inferiority). The simple act of making a comment about one sex or the other is not sexism. People who feel uncomfortable or offended enough by this comment to complain to the board of a freedom-promoting organization to change their speech guidelines is way overboard.

RMS is nuts and sometimes says things I don't agree with. That he made that joke only shows he has a bit of a sense of humor when he's not beating up children for not prefixing "GNU" to Linux.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 5:22 UTC (Thu) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (7 responses)

Oh gods, we've already had this conversation to death: http://lwn.net/Articles/348459/

Let me just say that "you don't see a problem" and "there is no problem" are not necessarily the same, that this may be one of those times (certainly I think it is). And if you're interested in finding out for yourself whether it is, then the above thread will provide you with many arguments for you to think about.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 2, 2010 13:23 UTC (Fri) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link] (6 responses)

Let me just say that "you see a problem" and "there is a problem" are not necessarily the same, that this may be one of those times (certainly I think it is).

On a more constructive note, and I apologize if that's a no-no for this topic, how would you propose to tell the difference between what I perceive and what you perceive and what's true? Can there be said to be a truth if we don't agree and can't objectively measure it? If you'll grant that it's difficult to say then I'll grant that you may be right and we can both back off of presuming that our opinions are fundamentally correct.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 5, 2010 14:21 UTC (Mon) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (1 responses)

You can't, and that's the point on which the earlier discussion foundered.

There's some clear territory at each edge, and a big grey area in the middle, and some people are spring-loaded to the pissed-off position, in my best friend's favorite phrasing, and they're going to get offended by

"Hi, my name is Greg",

because they think you're making fun of AA members.

So everyone just needs to act like grownups; if someone says something egregious, do something about it -- like walking out of the room.

Cause the people who *don't* walk out of the room when it's called for are just as bad as the people who freak out for no good reason.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 5, 2010 16:32 UTC (Mon) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]

Cause the people who *don't* walk out of the room when it's called for are just as bad as the people who freak out for no good reason.

Do you *really* mean to say that people with a legitimate reason to feel marginalized should just stand up and make a target of themselves? It's quite a Catch-22; if they do stand up then they'll be accused of being hysterical and freaking out for no reason, but if they don't, you're saying, then they're *also* just as bad as people who freak out for no reason.

I mean, have you ever had to worry that speaking out about this sort of thing would lead to the destruction of your career or ostracisation from the community?

But that said, I am glad to hear you support attempts to "do something" about egregious behavior.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 5, 2010 16:27 UTC (Mon) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (3 responses)

> On a more constructive note, and I apologize if that's a no-no for this topic, how would you propose to tell the difference between what I perceive and what you perceive and what's true?

I can see why you'd worry that a question like this might be a "no-no", but I'd encourage you not to think about things that way. There's a lot of people who think that arguments about social justice are an attempt to impose some sort of Rules on Discourse. Some are so offended by this idea that they start making slurs about "political correctness", others think that there's maybe a good point in here somewhere but are scared to talk because they don't know the rules.

No-one gave me a rule-book, I've just spent some time reading and thinking about this stuff, and decided that I wouldn't stay quiet and let it slide anymore. (And I'm sure if I keep talking about it then at some point I'll slip and say something horrible that I'll regret later. But that's the risk we take every time we interact with other people. If it happens I'll just do my best to make up for it.)

Anyway, personally I'm not going to be offended by a question asked in good faith!

> Can there be said to be a truth if we don't agree and can't objectively measure it?

Of course not -- but there's a middle ground between pure subjectivism (everything's an opinion!) and pure objectivism (there's only one truth and mine is better than yours!). Unfortunately, that middle ground requires us to all muddle along and try to achieve the best consensus approximation to underlying reality that we can get, while never being sure how well we're doing, but so it goes.

In this case, the OP was claiming that 1) there was one correct reading of RMS's statements, and that correct reading was not in any way harmful to women and therefore 2) anyone who was offended was over-reacting. My feeling is that while the OP is entitled to their reading of RMS's statements, the critical question is whether those statements also invited other, legitimate readings that *were* harmful. And when you have a movement leader getting up to exhort a crowd of (mostly) men to go out, find women, and take away their virginity -- okay, it was only their *emacs* virginity, but still. I don't think a woman would have to be "hysterical" to find that speech unsettling and off-putting. And I don't think, say, mjg59 is going overboard in his reasons for being offended either: http://lwn.net/Articles/348649/

So, I could be wrong (and I never claimed to have the objective truth). But in this case I'm reasonably confident that I'm closer to the truth than the OP was in their original post (though I'd still certainly be happy to hear other thoughts).

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 14, 2010 18:44 UTC (Wed) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link] (2 responses)

>I can see why you'd worry that a question like this might be a "no-no", but I'd encourage you not to think about things that way.

My aside was a bitter joke. Constructive debate on this topic is not so much frowned upon as it is not to be found, nor attempted. This sad state of affairs persists because emotions run high on all sides of this and one cannot begin to converse on the topic without raising someone's blood. The OPs post was of a short tone, as was your reply. Mine was chiding and not particularly conciliatory. This topic always degenerates to this point, and then to veiled insults, condescension and a flame war. Trying to keep things reasonable is an exercise in futility.

Case and point, check your reaction to the rest of my reply. Note, also, the already-degenerated tone of my reply as I go beyond the neutral "it's not clear-cut" and in to my actual perspective.

>In this case, the OP was claiming that 1) there was one correct reading of RMS's statements, and that correct reading was not in any way harmful to women and therefore 2) anyone who was offended was over-reacting. My feeling is that while the OP is entitled to their reading of RMS's statements, the critical question is whether those statements also invited other, legitimate readings that *were* harmful.

Must I quote occam's razor? The simplest explanation is usually correct and it is simpler not to presume malice, therefore it is likely that malice was not intended. The critical question is not "can it be read in a way that is harmful?" but "was there harmful intent?" I do not deny the possibility that someone might have been offended, because that's always possible and in this case it is quite apparent. I deny that taking offense is an appropriate response to the material, which I would describe as no more than mildly abhorrent.

That said, what you think the OP was claiming is not at all how I read the OP's claim. He made a factual statement about what the subject was when RMS was speaking, which is not an assertion about how many ways what RMS said could be read. He then asserted that the statements did not imply that women are inferior, which is not the same as saying that they could not be interpreted harmfully. He then asserted that commenting about genders is not inherently sexist, which is a neutral point that I hope no one will dispute but which I could defend if you like. He did not at that point say that being offended was over-reacting, what he said that taking such offense that you lodge a formal complaint and request formal censorship of future speakers is an over-reaction.

With the OPs points I am in general agreement. Requesting that speakers be censored is an extreme action which I would expect only in extreme circumstances, certainly only after repeat offenses from multiple speakers and only after less strict methods of resolution have been tried and failed. To leap straight to that smacks of malice in its own right, or at least an agenda that is at odds with common sense.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 14, 2010 19:07 UTC (Wed) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] (1 responses)

Are you seriously defending a speaker on the grounds that his presentation is "no more than mildly abhorrent"?

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 23, 2010 10:42 UTC (Fri) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link]

I am defending him on the grounds that his attackers are launching an extremely disproportionate retaliation. Even when viewed in the least positive way possible he was not extremely out of line and deserves a far less harsh reaction.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 13:59 UTC (Thu) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]

Oh, I thought an Emacs virgin was anyone, of either sex, who hadn't used the one true editor. Of course this whole thing is grossly offensive to vi users...

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 19:17 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] (1 responses)

Sure, it is a joke. And it would remain equally funny if the "emacs virgin" was either sex. Perhaps it would be even funnier if it is the stereotyped male geek who plays the rôle of the virgin to be thrown into the flaming volcano in some B movie...

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 23:36 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link]

> the "emacs virgin" was either sex.

This change has been in place since last year.

RMS agreed to the rules long ago, and reaffirms that position from time to time.

What's happening on the gnome-foundation list seems to be more about RMS-bashing than about equality or inclusion :-/ If one can't attack his philosophy, just derail the discussion by digging up, again, a joke from a year ago that got taken badly.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 2:18 UTC (Thu) by ewan (guest, #5533) [Link] (4 responses)

Not withstanding the "These guidelines are not to be interpreted as prohibiting the serious raising of a bona fide technical, legal or ethical issue during a presentation" bit the simplistic statement that "If someone in your audience is uncomfortable with something you've said, you're not doing your job" is still overbroad, and the two sections can easily be made to come into direct conflict with each other, which is a recipe for messy arguments.

I can see why the foundation wants to steer clear of defining what is or is not offensive, but setting the bar at 'someone being uncomfortable' is way too low; without having some sort of provision like 'a reasonable fraction of the audience being uncomfortable' it only takes one audience member with odd views to feel 'uncomfortable' (not even 'offended') and suddenly the speaker's held to be at fault.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 9:59 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

I wonder how many South Park episodes were based on this...

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 18:45 UTC (Thu) by clugstj (subscriber, #4020) [Link]

Welcome to political correctness!

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 19:19 UTC (Thu) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] (1 responses)

Funny. I just came across a post from an audience member at Linus' talk on git at Google who was greatly offended by his snide remarks on CVS (and subversion)...

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 4, 2010 22:06 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

What? Someone who used CVS in anger and *still likes it*?

I think he must have been trolling, or possibly in need of psychiatric counselling (not surprising after using CVS).

;}

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 12:25 UTC (Thu) by jackb (guest, #41909) [Link]

It is really necessary to bubblewrap the world to make sure no one's feelings get hurt? If that many people are really offended by Stallman then they'd stop showing up for his presentations and he'd need to change his behavior or else no one would listen to him.

If he told a bad joke and a large fraction of the audience stood up and walked out of the room it would be a far more effective way of enforcing good behavior.

gratuitous swearing

Posted Jul 1, 2010 13:53 UTC (Thu) by Seegras (guest, #20463) [Link] (3 responses)

No gratuitous swearing? I do have a fucking problem with that. I'm a european. We do that, no matter if we offend the puritans in the USA.

(And indeed, having rules imposed against swearing does make me very uncomfortable. I get a very eerie feeling associated with totalitarism and historical atrocities related to them. No joke.)

gratuitous swearing

Posted Jul 1, 2010 14:42 UTC (Thu) by louie (guest, #3285) [Link]

Yes, those puritanical bastards in the US. Good thing this was written primarily by a brit.

gratuitous swearing

Posted Jul 1, 2010 21:34 UTC (Thu) by ewan (guest, #5533) [Link]

The key get-out there is 'gratuitous'.

gratuitous swearing

Posted Jul 2, 2010 8:52 UTC (Fri) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link]

I like to swear as much as the next guy, but I still think gratuitous swearing in conference presentations is a behaviour that should be censured.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 16:10 UTC (Thu) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link]

Disgusting.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 1, 2010 17:47 UTC (Thu) by dmadsen (guest, #14859) [Link]

You know, I think it should be an offence if people use weird spelling, and noone should be allowed to use language incorrectly. In addition, French is my bête noire, so that should be outlawed, too.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 2, 2010 2:30 UTC (Fri) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link] (1 responses)

In 2007 I did the TAPR keynote, which I reprised for the San Francisco LUG (the Chinese Restaurant one) sometime later. It's entitled "Coming of Age as a Radio Amateur". The age was 50. There are a lot of tongue in cheek references to male menopause, including photos of antennas being raised by men in raincoats, the antenna on the back of my car at which I commented "it's seen a girl Prius and it's excited", and of course a political policy and technical discussion. I got a standing ovation from TAPR, and fan mail from at least one woman attending who expected to be bored.

It's disappointing that GNOME doesn't have the maturity to handle this sort of presentation. Fortunately there are lots of technical development venues that do.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 8, 2010 23:16 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Mmmm...

I was thinking something like that ...

Can't give chapter and verse I'm afraid, but I'm thinking of an incident in an (I think) university magazine. It came out, and the feminist lobby were up in arms - "it's outrageous, how could a man do this, etc etc".

Then they were invited to meet the artist who'd penned this particular piece. A woman!

Cheers,
Wol

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 2, 2010 2:44 UTC (Fri) by paulmfoster (guest, #17313) [Link] (9 responses)

Political correctness, indeed. What is this business of "no one can be offended"? People need to thicken up their skins. People have a right to say what they want. And you have a right to walk out. If enough people speak up about an offensive speaker, GNOME won't invite them back. Simple. OTOH, RMS's joke wasn't offensive if you have a moderately thick skin. Here's the question: if someone says something offensive, what do you suffer? A little discomfort. If that's the worst thing you ever encounter, you're living an idyllic life. Learn to live with discomfort, or better, learn not to feel it in the first place. The choice to feel offended is actually entirely up to you. If someone can so easily offend you, who is in charge of your emotions? You or the other person?

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 3, 2010 0:04 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (8 responses)

I have always been amazed at people's capacity to be offended. I learned early in a publishing career that if enough people read you, some will always find a way to be offended by what you wrote. As someone with a thick skin and sharp sense of humor, all I can do is keep a list, since the offense doesn't register to me at all. But the list keeps growing. I once wrote a notice about the culling of a database as a comical satire of a recent layoff at the company. Someone complained to my manager and he explained that making light of a layoff is offensive. OK.

But those of us with senses of humor can't really criticize people without -- that's just another way to be. We can't really say, "Oh, you haven't been hurt." How do we know?

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 3, 2010 2:31 UTC (Sat) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (6 responses)

Absolutely. I moved to the US fairly recently and was actually quite surprised to discover that the "Irish car bomb" is something that you can order at a bar without people being upset. If I hadn't grown up in Omagh it probably wouldn't have the same associations. There's no end to the things that people find offensive, primarily due to the fact that people have vastly differing life experiences.

My rationale while writing the original draft of these guidelines wasn't "You must avoid offending anyone". It was "Don't deliberately offend people, and if you accidentally do so then apologise and attempt to avoid further offense". The aim is to make people think before they stand up in front of an audience, and also to avoid lengthy and entirely pointless arguments about whether or not somebody's unhappiness is logically justifiable.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 5, 2010 13:46 UTC (Mon) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (1 responses)

>Absolutely. I moved to the US fairly recently and was actually quite surprised to discover that the "Irish car bomb" is something that you can order at a bar without people being upset

That reminds me of my suggestion for Twin Towers Commemorative Jenga.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 7, 2010 11:07 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Can't you tell that there's a difference between black humour and selling stuff via booth babes/implying that only members of one gender/ethnic group/whatever are going to be listening to your talk?

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 6, 2010 23:47 UTC (Tue) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link] (3 responses)

"The aim is to make people think before they stand up in front of an audience, and also to avoid lengthy and entirely pointless arguments about whether or not somebody's unhappiness is logically justifiable."

Hmmm, so the speaker must think about how he might offend people who are illogically unhappy? How is one supposed to figure this out by thinking? "Think hard about how illogical people might react?" Why is the speaker held to a higher standard than the audience? Or should I ask instead, why should the speaker lower himself to the standard of some minority in the audience? This is not a recipe for creating conferences which involve critical thinking, it is a recipe to create conferences which only talk about known agreed upon things; what a waste of a conference.

"Don't deliberately offend people, and if you accidentally do so then apologise and attempt to avoid further offense".

And what if I make an extremely important ethical point (not just some random joke) that accidentally offends some people, am I suppose to apologize because they hold unethical beliefs and were offended? I might be offended at their beliefs, should they apologize to me?! What if I am offended at your guidelines (I am), should you apologize to me? There is no end to this circular logic.

The reality of political correctness is that it is not about being offended, it is about which particular subjects one may or may not be offensive about!

* It's NOT OK to be offensive about race, sex or religion.

* It IS OK to be offensive by potentially advocating a particular political point: free software vs opens source, or that you may or may not (ethically) use proprietary software. It is OK to be offensive by telling people their software lacks important features or is buggy/insecure. It is OK to be offensive by ridiculing older not so well designed software. It is OK to be offensive by telling people that they didn't think before speaking. It is OK to be offensive by insulting large corporations at which many in the audience might work, by claiming that they do not contribute their share, or to speculate about the evil reasons they may have done something...

Political correctness is hypocritical agenda pushing which in itself should be viewed as offensive.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 7, 2010 2:56 UTC (Wed) by maco (guest, #53641) [Link] (1 responses)

I think the reference to logically justifiable is in terms of making apologies. It's not appropriate to make someone give a mathematical proof from first principles of why they found something offensive before one apologises. Simply accept that the person was offended, that it's your fault, apologise for it.

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 7, 2010 3:45 UTC (Wed) by martinfick (subscriber, #4455) [Link]

Absolute ideas like this are pure nonsense. You missed the point, perhaps they deserve to be offended (this is purely an example, no relation to the RMS story). It very much is important WHY someone was offended. If someone holds highly skewed offensive unethical values, they might be offended by the proposition of ethical values. Should the person proposing ethical values bow to the offended person holding unethical ones? Should the boy who pointed out that the emperor has no clothes apologize for offending the emperor? Why should the emperor not be the one apologizing? No one has yet apologized to all the people offended in this thread, should they, should you?

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 8, 2010 11:45 UTC (Thu) by ariveira (guest, #57833) [Link]

> Political correctness is hypocritical agenda pushing which in itself
> should be viewed as offensive.

+1

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 4, 2010 20:06 UTC (Sun) by johnflux (guest, #58833) [Link]

Good grief, you're so insulting to those around who happen to have a thinner skin than you. Why do you feel the need to offend me?

\s

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 5, 2010 14:25 UTC (Mon) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (1 responses)

I've been doing this since the early days of Usenet, when Fidonet was still a pretty neat idea, and their echomail policy seems apt in this circumstance:

. Be ye not overly annoying *nor too easily annoyed*.

It's that second clause that causes people the most trouble...

GNOME finalizes its speaker guidelines

Posted Jul 8, 2010 23:24 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

:-)

On Groklaw I tend to have a hair-trigger over "British English". The Americans there sometimes forget there are a lot of "furriners" there, and I'm quite happy for them to live their insular delusions :-) but when they assume that EVERYthing is American, I tend to throw a bit of a wobbly :-)

Somebody made the mistake of complaining about the use of the word "maths" recently :-) I could complain about the use of the word "math" ...

Cheers,
Wol


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