FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL [LWN.net]

FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

Posted Jun 11, 2010 8:54 UTC (Fri) by vadim (guest, #35271)
In reply to: FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL by Lefty
Parent article: FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

I've said that the FSF can blame Apple as much as they like, but all they've done is ensure that no iPhone user (of which there are about 50 million to date) will be exposed to GPL-licensed software. If the GPL was violated by anyone, it was the developer. Apple was as much of a "victim" here as the FSF.

That's entirely fine with me. I'll just develop for other platforms. As a developer of GPL software I think there's one thing you don't understand: I don't release it under the BSD very intentionally. I'm not interested in the widest distribution possible, but in the widest distribution possible when every term of the GPL is followed. I'm not interested in compromising over this, as the GPL is really the kind of license I want. Therefore I really do prefer the software not to be distributed at all, to it being distributed against the GPL.

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FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

Posted Jun 11, 2010 14:22 UTC (Fri) by Lefty (guest, #51528) [Link]

I'm glad that's "fine with" you, Vadim. I assume it's "fine with" the FSF as well.

It's actually "fine with" me, too: it can only have the effect of increasing the desire of developers-in-general to go with non-GPL alternatives (e.g. clangwhich Apple is pushingand bionicwhich Google is pushingfor starts) and to avoid the use of GPL-licensed code if they wish to put their efforts onto a platformsuch as the iPhonewhere they might actually see wide use.

While is may be "fine" for some people, it's not (in my opinion) at all healthy for the "free software movement". If the software is as "free" as the FSF wants it to be, but no one to speak of uses it (think "The HURD"), would that constitute a "victory"...?

Seems a sort of a Pyrrhic one to me.

FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

Posted Jun 11, 2010 16:04 UTC (Fri) by vadim (guest, #35271) [Link]

Again, you're still thinking of "world domination". I personally don't care.

It's actually "fine with" me, too: it can only have the effect of increasing the desire of developers-in-general to go with non-GPL alternatives (e.g. clang—which Apple is pushing—and bionic—which Google is pushing—for starts) and to avoid the use of GPL-licensed code if they wish to put their efforts onto a platform—such as the iPhone—where they might actually see wide use.

Sure, Apple can push whatever they want. On my part I'm not interested in anything they make (too closed), and don't work on any Apple specific software. Some of it should build on OS X, but I don't offer support for it.

While is may be "fine" for some people, it's not (in my opinion) at all healthy for the "free software movement". If the software is as "free" as the FSF wants it to be, but no one to speak of uses it (think "The HURD"), would that constitute a "victory"...?

Linux has a large enough userbase for me, so I'm not really worried.

Again, I'm not interested in huge numbers for the numbers' sake. Any usage that goes against the GPL doesn't benefit me and doesn't count, even if that's a million users.

Seems a sort of a Pyrrhic one to me.

I consider it good, or worst case value neutral. My assessment is: Usage according to the GPL is +1, contrary to the GPL is -1 or 0 (depends on why), no usage is 0.

Therefore, in general, a change from infringement to compliance is excellent, and from infringement to non-usage somewhat disappointing but still an improvement.

Since I find all Apple platforms too restrictive to even consider supporting them, usage or lack of it is overall irrelevant. If it happens to work, good, if it doesn't I don't really care.

FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

Posted Jun 23, 2010 18:50 UTC (Wed) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]

Well, than you and Lefty simply have a different pov and goal. I'm more or less on lefty's side here, as I think Free Software is important for the world - to help poorer people, defeat evil companies and protect free speech. For that, FOSS needs to be as big as possible, preferably everywhere. So I'm less and less supportive of the FSF and more and more on the side of the FSFE which is far more practical.

If you just want to hack with some friends on cool stuff and have fun, yes, you're just fine where you are with FOSS and the FSF. If you want to move it forward because you believe it is *important* for the world, FSF is doing you a dis-favor.

FSF takes on Apple's App Store over GPL

Posted Jun 14, 2010 19:00 UTC (Mon) by aigarius (subscriber, #7329) [Link]

Actually users of free software are far less valuable to the success of the free software movement than *contributors* to free software. If you are a free software user on the iPhone platform, you are very unlikely to become a contributor, because the technical limitations prevent you from tinkering with your software that is most often required to make a contribution. Sure - you can report bugs, fix online docs and maybe translate the next version, but for majority of contributions the iPhone platform is rather useless.

If you already jailbroke your iPhone (enabling you to tinker), then you can install the software to it without AppStore.

In the end the benefit from having a GPL app be represented in Apple App Store is of miniscule benefit to the free software community. So much so, that I would argue that the benefit of this FSF action (to public awareness of free software) is actually greater than the benefits all GPL software in the AppStore has brough so far.

Other app stores on mobile devices do not suffer as much, because it is easier to install an non-approved applications onto Adroid, Maemo and even WinMo devices.