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Fedora 13 release slips
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The F13 final readiness meeting, also known as the "go/no-go" meeting, was held this evening. As the meeting notes indicate, there are bugs remaining on the blocker list: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-May/09... According to the release criteria[1], the decision was made to slip the release of Fedora 13 by one week, to Tuesday 2010-05-25. During composition of any further release candidates, the Fedora Release Engineering and Quality Assurance teams plan to be conservative in accepting fixes for the release, and will limit these to blocker items and critical fixes. The Fedora 13 release schedule[2] has been updated to reflect the new release date. We regret any inconvenience to the community. Thank you for your patience as we try to ensure the best possible Fedora release. * * * [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Cr... [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule - -- Paul W. Frields -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFL6gZfrNvJN70RNxcRAovhAJ4gCqmdpUPjxqcUeZT/9Rufm2T1gQCgjHKw d3Iuc1YktqutAtkkB/zI3l0= =TpN+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- announce mailing list announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/announce (Log in to post comments)
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 14:38 UTC (Wed) by dmitrij.ledkov (subscriber, #63320) [Link]
When was the last time Fedora shipped on time?
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 15:06 UTC (Wed) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] But I don't think there's a problem -- it's not like the releases are vapor delayed forever. Rather, the release date is a target, and a thoughtful decision is made about whether the software is up to standards for that target.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 15:47 UTC (Wed) by tajyrink (subscriber, #2750) [Link]
Actually, according to http://linuxkommando.com/?p=62 and other sources:"Fedora 10 will be further delayed. The new release date is now set at 25 November."
"Fedora 8 delayed" is the first I don't get google hits for. But the at least the previous Fedora Core 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 release were seemingly delayed. So maybe 8 was the only Fedora release ever which was not delayed?
It has seemed safe to assume that original schedule + 1 month is what one can wait for. I think it's maybe "too acceptable" to always have that delay, but if the community does not get frustrated with that, maybe it's not a problem.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 15:57 UTC (Wed) by dmitrij.ledkov (subscriber, #63320) [Link]
Now that F13 branched off earlier, unfreezing RawHide before release maybe F14 will ship on time?
Although F14 cycle has Gnome3 release and I haven't heard Fedora's decision about that (e.g. will gnome-shell be dafault?).
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 19:28 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
Rawhide is now a permanent development branch and doesn't freeze at all. So perhaps you meant late branching for Fedora 14?
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 21:42 UTC (Wed) by dmitrij.ledkov (subscriber, #63320) [Link]
Yes, I meant that =) struggling with words here a little bit =)
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 22:51 UTC (Wed) by Ed_L. (guest, #24287) [Link] if the community does not get frustrated with that, maybe it's not a problem.Believe me, its .NOT. a problem. Remember the tempest brewed when Fedora tried changing their default Package Manager permission from admin to user? Turns out there are far far more Fedoras worn in production and semi-production environment than one would have guessed from all the "perpetual beta-ness" jokes. Anaconda gotta work. Grub gotta work. Yum gotta work. Xorg had better work or be readily made to work. Apart from those, we're pretty tolerant. Take NetworkManager. (Or ParaVirt Xen.) Fedora used to be exemplary about having freshly-installed X come up at least in VESA. There have been some recent slips in that regard. As I recall it took F11 several months before it would work with ATi x700 cards, but at least there was plenty of warning here and on Phoronix. LiveCD's are nice. I try to make a point of waiting at least a month before installing the latest Fedora on a production system, although a year ago I got semi-serious about beta-testing after installing a few more disks. (Having an IDE drive for testing is convenient, as one can easily disable production SATA drives in BIOS for testing. The problem is finding time to reboot a production box, a problem apparently not widely shared by our Windows brethren... )
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 1:18 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
> Believe me, its .NOT. a problem.
+1
Known blockers gotta get fixed. That's the whole point of having release criteria.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 17, 2010 8:12 UTC (Mon) by tajyrink (subscriber, #2750) [Link]
Yes. I still think, being a bit outsider to Fedora community and therefore maybe can see how the outside world might view Fedora, that they should shift some other freeze deadline a bit earlier, so that it would be more probable not to have blocker bugs delaying the release?
I believe that practically the current system works very well, but having a schedule that never holds may indicate a need to shift something a bit.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 6:47 UTC (Thu) by eduperez (guest, #11232) [Link]
> I try to make a point of waiting at least a month before installing the latest Fedora on a production system, although a year ago I got semi-serious about beta-testing after installing a few more disks. (Having an IDE drive for testing is convenient, as one can easily disable production SATA drives in BIOS for testing. The problem is finding time to reboot a production box, a problem apparently not widely shared by our Windows brethren... )
A long time ago, I decided that as soon as a new version came out, I would upgrade to the previous one: when Fedora 13 ships, I will upgrade from Fedora 11 to Fedora 12; so far, no regrets.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 16:12 UTC (Thu) by compte (guest, #60316) [Link]
Yes, delays are not a problem, I recently had to revert to FC10 because of a problem in FC12 gnome panel. I first used KDE to try and fix the problem, but to no avail.
I don't want to put anyone down but I don't know how certain people can use KDE. KDE has good apps but its desktop is a real struggle. I would not suggest for them to improve, because that would be like asking for the Pope to resign.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 14, 2010 17:41 UTC (Fri) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] When I have had problems with Gnome I switched to XFCE. Disclaimer: I use X as a way of having a lot of terminals open at the same time, not too much more. I'm not a GUI person, far from it.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 16, 2010 12:17 UTC (Sun) by kraftman122 (guest, #65942) [Link]
I don't know how some people can use Gnome? I don't want to put you down, but Gnome does have only few good apps and its desktop is a real struggle. There are many people asking them to improve (at ubuntu blue prints in example), but those people don't know it's like asking MS to start supporting Linux.
From Gnome 2.30 user experience "changes":
"Largely unchanged. One noteworthy change is that nautilus defaults to browser mode now."
Damn, what a change. No, they don't listen.
On topic, it's better to not follow release schedule strictly, because if there are some bugs that will affect the end user experience it will not be good for Fedora. Ubuntu 10.04 was released with few serious bugs open (like: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/524281) and now it's paying.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 16, 2010 12:42 UTC (Sun) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
I prefer the model of incremental changes between releases unless it is a major new release like GNOME 3.0. Every major change is often disruptive and we need to have less of them in regular intervals.
Fedora's release criteria is published at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Criteria
We have gotten more and more detailed about these sort of processes with each Fedora release and transparency does help quite a bit for the different organizational teams like release engineering and QA to evaluate the suitability of a release in terms that others can understand and participate in. Testers known what to expect for instance.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 12, 2010 17:45 UTC (Wed) by kmself (subscriber, #11565) [Link]
More relavantly, when is the last time it didn't slip on schedule?
Props to Jon.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 1:09 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
> More relavantly, when is the last time it didn't slip on schedule?
So what would you have done? Shipped the media with know installation problems? Please.
PS. So far, I have upgraded one of my systems to F-13 (a VM to be precise, located on another continent). This was the smoothest upgrade of Fedora ever. Zero issues. And, kudos to everyone that contributed to new Evolution - it is by far the best release of it - ever. IMAPX rocks, Exchange support over OWA is also working better.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 21:49 UTC (Thu) by kmself (subscriber, #11565) [Link]
I was commenting on the (as usual) dry, witty, and brilliant commentary of Our Editor.
Project slips happen. I'd very much prefer to see working code late than broken code early, for sufficient values of broken. Looks like the slip is brief to boot (to date).
Given my usual distro of choice (Debian) is notorious for late releases, and I'm dealing with a nontrivial value of broken on Ubuntu 9.04 -> 10.04 upgrade (keyboard/mouse frozen in X), I'm familiar with several sides of this debate.
Regards Exchange / OWA, I was looking into this recently and it appears that Mail.app (Mac) offers Exchange connectivity through <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb204119.aspx">Exchange Web Services</a>, rather than kluging through OWA. But of course, all of Exchange is a kluge (I'm currently trying to clear some 11k bogus mail dupes from my mutt/IMAP connection). $WORK is headed to GMail (and a much cleaner IMAP/POP interface) Real Soon Now, and I can hardly wait.
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 23:13 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
> Exchange Web Services
Yeah, from what I know you need to have Exchange 2010 for that to work. Most folks are still on 2003 or 2007, I think. At least where I connect is.
BTW, Evo also has MAPI support.
"The traditional slip has been announced..." Posted May 12, 2010 15:04 UTC (Wed) by markhb (guest, #1003) [Link]
Brilliant turn of phrase, Jon!
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 1:38 UTC (Thu) by dmitrij.ledkov (subscriber, #63320) [Link]
Actually I take my stab back. It's not that bad.
Based on the release dates [1] and not the schedule and ommitting counting days/weeks but just taking release months for delta:
Release - delta months
Average is 6.5 months (excluding F13)
Is it fair to say that fedora is a 6.5m release cycle? Not sure.
I think it's different policy:
Ubuntu does get some critisism from community about 0-day updates and i can't comment on how well Fedora users take "announce release day, announce +1 week, announce +2 weeks" type of thing, but it seems to work out fine for both of them.
Debian has it's own ritiual pre-release kernel-firmware vote =)))) which we are still to hear about for Squeeze.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_(operating_system)#Releases
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 3:04 UTC (Thu) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]
The Debian kernel team already stripped out the firmware, so no vote about that for squeeze probably.
We're having a "put firmware on the install media" discussion instead. Definitely not a flamewar, it seems very tame so far. Probably the only reason it is still going is that people don't read the whole thread before posting. The outcome seems to point towards shipping a second set of install boot media labelled 'non-free', the CD image folks don't seem to want to do that though.
As to Debian release slippage, the freeze is likely to be this month. So, get cracking on fixing those RC bugs!
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 12:35 UTC (Thu) by PaulDickson (subscriber, #478) [Link]
One cycle was deliberately chosen to be longer than the others, nine months. Would this be FC5?
Fedora 13 release slips Posted May 13, 2010 19:38 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
Yes, it was. Fedora releases cycles were more varied in the past. Now we have more or less settled on a six month release cycle but we do have a release delays based on the release criteria and blocker bugs.
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