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QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com)QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com)Posted Mar 17, 2010 8:44 UTC (Wed) by trasz (guest, #45786)In reply to: QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) by tzafrir Parent article: QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com)
From the user or developer point of view, Debian removing cdparanoia because they don't like something about it isn't really different from Apple removing <some piece of software> because they don't like something about it. It's just that something was there and worked, and now its gone, because the distributor decided they don't like it anymore.
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QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 8:45 UTC (Wed) by trasz (guest, #45786) [Link]
s/cdparanoia/cdrtools/
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 12:54 UTC (Wed) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]
So removing something because it is probably (and widely believed to be) illegal to distribute is the same in your eyes as removing something because it competes with something else you sell?
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 13:11 UTC (Wed) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]
From a naive user's perspective it's the same: the software is used to be there, but now it's not there. It's the same with regressions: audio used to work, now with pulseaudio it doesn't work, it's a bug and I really don't care if the bug was already in the alsa driver - pulseaudio broke my system.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 13:57 UTC (Wed) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784) [Link]
So when that guy at the market who sold bootlegs was raided by the police, your observation is that there's now merely less choice at the market?
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 10:37 UTC (Wed) by rqosa (subscriber, #24136) [Link] If Debian removes something, the user can just get it from elsewhere (unofficial repository, compile from source, download a "generic" build, etc.) If Apple removes something from the App Store, it's illegal to get it from elsewhere (or at least Apple wants it to be illegal). That's the difference.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 12:52 UTC (Wed) by tzafrir (subscriber, #11501) [Link]
(as per your fix below: you meant cdrtools)
This falls in the Illegal department. Debian users simply can't legally use cdrtools. Despite what its author claims.
(The package existed in Debian for quite a long time with a README saying how bad is Linux in general and Debian specifically. This did not cause Debian to remove it or patch it away. Legal issues are a different matter).
I'm still waiting for a valid example.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 13:28 UTC (Wed) by trasz (guest, #45786) [Link]
No. Debian folks _claim_ that it's illegal. Last time I checked, rest of the world - e.g. Fedora, FreeBSD or OpenSolaris - continues to distribute cdrtools.
From my point of view this is just rubbish - somewhat similar to breaking network adapters support by removing firmware. It's not law or legal stuff, it's just someone's paranoia.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 13:30 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]
I can't speak for the rest, but Fedora (and RHEL) most definitely does not ship cdrtools, for the same reason that Debian does -- though they came to that conclusion independently, via their in-house legal folks who, yes, really are lawyers.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 20:28 UTC (Wed) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] Just for the record, there is no cdrtools package in Fedora rawhide.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 16:00 UTC (Wed) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
And many people distributed Pine for years and years in clear violation of the license. Debian is right on this matter, there's not a lot of of gray area.
And you are so very very close to trolling.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 17, 2010 23:51 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
Uh? PINE was perfectly legal to redistribute - it just wasn't free software
(you couldn't redistribute a patched PINE, end-users had to do that themselves if something bothered them).
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 21, 2010 5:06 UTC (Sun) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
Sorry, my memory was hazy, you are right.
However, most distributions distributed patched versions, and thus were outside legality.
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 21, 2010 5:09 UTC (Sun) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
Err.. no. the pine license allowed noncommercial distribution.
So SuSE selling CDs with pine on them, patched or no....
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 21, 2010 5:26 UTC (Sun) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] the pine license allowed noncommercial distribution. So SuSE selling CDs with pine on them, patched or no....Clause (c) of the Pine license allows distribution as part of a for-fee package so long as the contents of the package are non-proprietary. https://www.washington.edu/pine/overview/legal.html
QA with Matt Asay: How Linux is Beating Apple and Much More (Linux.com) Posted Mar 21, 2010 6:58 UTC (Sun) by k8to (subscriber, #15413) [Link]
But portions of the package *were* proprietary.
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