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Provo Linux users protest at SCO
On Friday, June 20, the Provo Linux Users Group decided to head on over to
SCO's offices and hold a protest; information on the event, including
pictures and press coverage, can be found on the PLUG page. Among other things,
the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event
holding pre-prepared signs saying things like "I love software piracy" and
"Try communism - use Linux." (Thanks to Phillip Warner).
Update: in case you're not following the comments, photos of SCO's (insulting) anti-protest signs can be found on this page. Thanks to amaoui for posting the pointer. (Log in to post comments)
Watching the quicktime protest movies on the PLUG web site Posted Jun 22, 2003 11:39 UTC (Sun) by dwalters (subscriber, #4207) [Link] I'd like to watch the Quicktime movies on the PLUG page, but it seems Red Hat 9 does not have a player, and the Quicktime Player download at the apple web site only supports Mac and Windows.What's the easiest way to watch Quicktime movies in Linux?
Watching the quicktime protest movies on the PLUG web site Posted Jun 22, 2003 11:43 UTC (Sun) by Jilks (guest, #12291) [Link] Use mplayer. All the info you need is on their site: http://mplayerhq.hu
Watching the quicktime protest movies on the PLUG web site Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:14 UTC (Sun) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] Yeah but there are patent issues with Quicktime aren't there? Whycouldn't they use plain old MPEG2? That seems like the most widely supported format and there are definately players for Linux and in addition it is a documented standard.
Watching the quicktime protest movies on the PLUG web site Posted Jun 23, 2003 8:12 UTC (Mon) by gw666 (guest, #12326) [Link] MPEG2 has lots of patent issues, that's why there isn't even an mpeg2 decoder in most windows players. Even MPEG1 isn't free, let's all hope for Ogg Theora, which will be 100% patent free.
Watching the quicktime protest movies on the PLUG web site Posted Jun 22, 2003 19:14 UTC (Sun) by DaveK (subscriber, #2531) [Link] Use mplayer... Or XINE.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 12:16 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] UF... I saw above 100 jpgs and the quicktime movies (Mandrake9+plf) and i didnt so the "dirty moves" from internal SCO staff...The protest was a small and amused gathering of about 50 people with children...even with the provocation... Were are pictures of: * I love software piracy * I don't pay for my music, I'm not paying for my os, so sue me * My son stole code & published it! And all I got was this lousy t-shirt * Try communism - use Linux Can you help us LWN?... It would be important to watch if SCO tryes to considerer those children is penguin suits the wordls dangerest terrorists...
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:04 UTC (Sun) by amaoui (subscriber, #5716) [Link] here http://www.kuwan.net/scoAntiProtest/index.html
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:37 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] In the "Give Communism a Try!" poster, we have: 0) Spurious reference to Communism. 1) A drawing of a presumed IBM executive with: a) Pants down. b) Arrayed in form of a Cross. 2) A Penguin speaking German: a) Badly, "Ya Vol", two words misspelled out of two. b) Wearing a Nazi-era helmet. If there is prize for badly mixed metaphors and use of offensive symbols, this work is certainly qualifies for a dishonorable mention.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 14:28 UTC (Sun) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] It doesn't take much imagination to come to the conclusion that the drawing is meant to portray Linus, who is not an IBM executive. High class stuff for sure...
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 15:07 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] Except Linus got laser eye surgery, so no more glasses. Not only are SCO offensively tasteless, but they're behind the times.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:16 UTC (Sun) by exeleven (guest, #12302) [Link] Not everyone is part of the linus-stalkers list that watch his every move.Who cares what these moron pro-SCO people think.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 19:44 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] Who cares what these moron pro-SCO people think.What local pro-SCO people think may actually be quite important. When I read the Amended Complaint, SCO was asking for a Jury Trial. By being chummy and at the same time launching an ad-hominem attack against the community associated with their protesters, SCO may be attempting to sow seeds of partiality in the communities surrounding Lindon. Imagine a dozen well-educated and easy-going people like erat on the jury. There may be a method to their madness. Does anyone know if IBM was successful in moving this from State Court to Federal Court, and if this case is in Federal Court, is a trial by jury still possible? Where would the venue be in that case, and where would the jury pool come from? If this is a case with a local State court and a local jury, then Public Relations with the potential jury pool is of paramount importance. And if you want to maintain the position that Juries are not influenced by such matters, at least one high-profile jury trial immediately comes to mind.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 7:51 UTC (Mon) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link] Interesting that this could be tried in a state court, especially in light of the world-wide ambitions by SCO to reclaim the very idea of Unix as their own, however it might be expressed in every multitasking operating system written these 30 years. If it does stay in Utah (the home of radical copy protection legislators), then we need to find a way send anyone we can who can make sure a pre-tampered jury (people who saw the protest) is either never empanelled, or at least exposed for what they are. (Some protesters dressed as skunks and octopi holding umbrellas should get the point across.)
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 9:21 UTC (Mon) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link] Interesting that this could be tried in a state court, especially in light of the world-wide ambitions by SCO to reclaim the very idea of Unix as their own, however it might be expressed in every multitasking operating system written these 30 years.I've been researching this a bit. In the event of a worse-case outcome, there are still alternatives. Many aspects of modern operating systems, such as virtual memory, predate UNIX and where developed independently from Multics. Here's an intersting article: http://www.multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 15:50 UTC (Sun) by justforyou (guest, #12297) [Link] I wonder where your mind is. It's not someone with their pants down at all. I don't know how you reached that conclusion. The drawing in question is meant to be of Linus, in the form of a puppet, with IBM's hand in it. See where "IBM" is written, thats the cuff of a suit. Not pants.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 16:10 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] Ah yes, you're quite right. I know that some have pointed out that "this is all in good fun", but SCO is going for the juglar here. To mock Linus as a puppet of IBM shows ignorance of EVMS and other past issues. So add ignorance to Satan's Corporate Office list of attributes.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 17:11 UTC (Sun) by im14u2c (subscriber, #5246) [Link] It's supposed to be "Linus as a hand puppet on some IBM Executive's hand."
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:39 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] Were are the "terrorists" that were supposed to hold that signs ?EVEN IN PROVOCATIONS SCO IS A COMPLETE "IDIOT".
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:30 UTC (Sun) by kuwan (guest, #12303) [Link] For more of the pictures from the same site go here (with mirrors).http://www.kuwan.net/scotesters/index.html
Solution for fake protestors Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:12 UTC (Sun) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] They should create a logo which is copyrighted and trademarked. Everylegitimate protestor puts a copy of this logo on their sign but SCO would be legally barred from using the same logo. If they did, they could be sued for copyright and trademark infringement. Just an idea.
Second idea Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:18 UTC (Sun) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] Ok, after looking at those signs, I'd imagine that Linus wouldbe in a good position to sue for defamation... specifically libel which I believe is considered more serious than slander. But don't take my word for it because I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice :)
Second idea Posted Jun 22, 2003 13:58 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] The all scene is so PATHETIC, that we must thank SCO for showing the world how "dirty" they are,... and dont bother more with it!WHAT THEY WANT IS "AGRESSIVE BEHAVOR"... LETS NOT GIVE THEM THAT!
Second idea Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:50 UTC (Sun) by lyda (guest, #7429) [Link] funny, that was my first thought.sco's signs were not funny. they were crude, slanderous and rude. that's not the same as funny. sco has made serious allegations - allegations that it has provided no proof for. its lawsuit affects tens of thousands of peoples employment and smears the name of thousands of free software developers. all to enrich the bank accounts of a few doxen people who probably have far too much money already. why are people humourless about this? gee, i wonder.
Solution for fake protestors Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:19 UTC (Sun) by exeleven (guest, #12302) [Link] And who in the Geek Community is going to cough up the legal fee's.
Solution for fake protestors Posted Jun 23, 2003 13:35 UTC (Mon) by UncleWarthog (guest, #12337) [Link] I've got a better solution, but it involves the use of a telephone and a camera.Step 1: Photograph SCO (or other Canopy Group flunky) holding one of the "I support software piracy" signs. Step 2: Use telephone. "Hello, BSA? Yes, I'd like to report someone who is pirating sofware...." Just a thought...
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 14:47 UTC (Sun) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] No, not the SCO folks who made the signs... It's the people who don't have a shred of humor left and, more importantly, weren't even there who seem to be take everything SCO employees touch as being an insult.I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun. You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave. Here are some facts that some (all?) of you didn't get from the pictures: 1) It was very hot that day so Canopy provided drinks for everyone, including the protesters. And yes, protesters took them up on the drinks, and they even said "thanks". 2) SCO and Canopy employees (including Ralph Yarro and Darl McBride, among others) shared laughs with the picketters. No, I didn't see Chris Sontag or Blake Stowell out there, but I don't know them so I could have just missed them. 3) Darl, on his way home, stopped by the picketting near 1600 N. (he didn't have to; he could have driven by and nobody would have noticed) and chatted with the protesters. There are at least two pictures of him with his arms around a few of the protesters, and all of them are happy. Sorry folks, but other than a reporter who got heat stroke, the people who showed up had a good time. The folks there mixed with SCO, Canopy, etc. employees from around the office complex, had some fun with the "rivalry", and went on their merry way happy. At least that was my observation. The intent of the protest was to bring attention to the opinions of those who oppose SCO's actions, not to threaten, throw things, fight, or yell. In that regard, the protest was more successful than I would have hoped. Nobody walked away with a different opinion of SCO's actions, but people can disagree without hating each other. At least here in Utah they can.
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 15:45 UTC (Sun) by busterb (subscriber, #560) [Link] Should we also assume that this $3 billion dollar lawsuit is also just a bunch of guys yuckingit up, having a good time? It sure seems like a joke.
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 16:44 UTC (Sun) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] I doubt that. Most of the SCO folks that I've chatted with informally have indicated that there really is something to the lawsuit. I have to trust that they know something I don't, because from the outside looking in there seems to be a lot of holes in their claims against IBM.All I'm talking about is the protest. Folks blew off some steam, laughed at themselves and each other, placed faces to names, and went on their merry way. Looking back, I don't remember anyone -- not even the protesters -- being dour or pissed. Maybe they're all good liars. Who knows? From my perspective, pretty much everyone was smiling and having a good time on BOTH sides. And when all was said and done, the protesters got their pictures and movies and the local media gave them news coverage. That's what they set out to get, and they got it. What's not to like?
Question is, do they really know, or are they trusting McBride & Co? Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:07 UTC (Sun) by leonbrooks (guest, #1494) [Link] McBride has a bad, bad history. The Canopy Group ain't a bunch of angelseither. So what's to keep them from stretching the facts to avoid upsetting their employees?
Question is, do they really know, or are they trusting McBride & Co? Posted Jun 22, 2003 22:32 UTC (Sun) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] Nothing whatsoever.
This is sad... Posted Jun 23, 2003 0:00 UTC (Mon) by jeff@uclinux.org (subscriber, #8024) [Link] I've worked with Canopy folks too. Everything is always ostensibly with the best ofintentions. The results have often been unfortunate. I'll put it another way... they are folks who believe deeply in their own view of a given situation (great quality of the people there). Unfortunately, they remain commited to that view when both all available evidence and the opinion of others (even co-workers) differ. They (the employees) are _NOT_ liars, they are mislead. Look, this is not a case where business and personal views/lives are seperate and we can Make them (again the employees) aware of the damage, my real belief knowing some of
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 16:00 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] With all respect, but first of all, if it was a joke, i think that was a kind of sic joke... dont you think ?, some if not all of the "saying" in the signs are pretty AGRESSIVE!... not funny if you are "NOT" in a BASH LINUX AT ALL COST... ARE YOU?... if i resented Linux like Chirs Sontag and Black Stowell then, not likely, but i imagine i could find this funny:http://www.kuwan.net/scoAntiProtest/index.html. But your post indicates that you have relatives working at SCO, or do yourself,... or (confusing) the demonstration was not a protest but a SCO charming PR campaign pro Linux!!!
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 16:31 UTC (Sun) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] Well, what's more insulting: playing into a charicature of yourself, or telling someone to flat out "go to hell"? I would guess the latter. Except in this case, the signs said "SCO to hell" instead of "Go to hell". This phrase may not mean much to you, but some folks in Utah find stuff like that to be pretty low. Regardless, SCO folks took it to be an attention-getter and left it at that.You choose what insults you. I earn my living working with Linux, and no, I don't work for SCO (in fact, my entire team was cut loose by SCO last November. I hold no charity for that company whatsoever). Regardless, I do know people who work at SCO, and in talking with them I never get the impression that they consider Linux advocates to be dope smokin' communists. As far as I'm concerned the people who made those SCO signs were just egging on folks like yourself who they KNEW would want to see something like that. I guess even in times like this some folks are still capable of laughing at themselves. So, no, I don't think this was a sick joke. It was a performance, nothing more. If you're insulted by it, there's nothing I can do about it. All I know is that I was not insulted, and I'm a Linux guy. Perhaps you just had to be there...
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:17 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] My observance of people's behavior has resulted in the conclusion that some folks joke about what they _really_ mean deep down in their heart of hearts, but are prevented from expressing publicly for one reason or another. Humor is a fig leaf which covers just enough to get by. But there are limits at which humor ends and something much different begins.If someone jokes about blowing up a building or shooting a bunch of people, that is not a joke, and must be taken seriously. Try "just joking" about bombs the next time you go to the airport. To some, Nazis and Communists are so far in the past as to become meaningless epithets, no harm intended, no harm taken. Today, calling someone a Tory doesn't have the effect as it did 200 years ago, or Yankee (to a Southerner) 100 years ago. But what the Nazis and Communists did is still fresh in the minds of many, especially those whose ancestors were directly affected. To some, a Communist is simply someone who believes in a particular economic theory. To others, Communism represents the darkest days of Stalin, who caused the deaths of tens of millions of innocents. My idea of funny will be if large portions of SCO-added Unix kernel code is made public through discovery, and we get the "Al Viro Commentary on SCO Unix".
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 19:41 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] err,... this isnt about communism or nazism or any other "ism",... politics CRAP stinks all over the world rigth now, that those are ending to be insults fast,... so let us cut the politics CRAP, please(thank you).Try instead words like robbing, stealling, piracy, and other devious behavor that makes "go to hell" seem like "good-morning"... though i dont feel personaly insulted, i recon that's what it is(an insult).
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 20:08 UTC (Sun) by NerdlyMcGeek (guest, #8453) [Link] erat,Just what is your major malfunction? Church got ya by the short ones? My guess is you are way closer to this thing than across the street but we'll never know. The only thing I find lower than their bogus claims and plackards is your LDS, sco luvin, commie suckin attitiude. You, your Canopy and LDS or should I say LSD buddies should imediately SCO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 21:14 UTC (Sun) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] You know, I hate to jump into this, but this sort of comment doesn't help anything. erat was there and is trying to explain things as he saw them. I don't entirely agree with him, don't think that those signs were just a good joke. But nobody should be questioning erat's "Linux credentials" or assaulting him in this way. I'd sure rather that LWN stayed a calmer, politer, well-reasoned sort of place.
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 23:28 UTC (Sun) by euvitudo (subscriber, #98) [Link] Thank you Jonathan. When I first sent the link to LWN, I was hoping that people might find this an interesting event. I am saddened that an event I find interesting could cause such distrust.I appreciate the fact that someone is actually taking some action in the advocation and defense of Linux. I am grateful to the many people that made Linux possible for me to use. It is my hope that something like this might encourage others to try to make a difference in their community and the lives of their fellow citizens. I continually strive to advocate the progress of Linux to my family. They still think that it is just for the advanced computer nerd, even though they have never used it. I just hope one day we can convince enough people to see the advantages of Linux to the effect that they quickly migrate to the platform, and add their voices to our own. I believe we can learn a good lesson from this event--that we should be emerging from our cubicles and sofas to actively educate our communities in the advantages of using Linux. Of course, when I say "Linux" I mean FS/OSS in general. Furthermore, striking out at the agendas of large corporations who abuse Linux and FS/OSS, making the community aware of their intentions, and advocating alternative usage, will put pressure on these corporations to play nice with us. There will always be a place for corporations such as SCO--someone will always want to make the most profit with the least amount of cost to them, even if it means breaking down the FS/OSS community. We will always be criticized for our world view because it goes against everything for which corporations have worked, i.e., higher profits. Who knows, the next predator could be Sun, HP, or even IBM themselves. I hope this is not the case, because I like to see these corporations assist us in our efforts. It pleases me to see this assistance. However, we cannot put our full trust in them, we need to watch them very carefully, because they are still in the business of making money. My vision is that if we can help government, education, small and large businesses, and the general public see the advantages of FS/OSS, and convince them to happily and eagerly migrate to Linux et al., then we will be in a good position to place even more pressure on the corporations that stand to abuse us. The more users we have, the more voice we will have. I shall not digress any further. I only hope that we can build trust in one another and build our community, and not feed the infighting that the adversaries desire to produce. My $0.06 Reais. Phillip Warner
This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 22:29 UTC (Sun) by erat (guest, #21) [Link] As a non-Canopy, non-LDS, fully functional capitalist, I forgive you...
Taunting SCO (and not erat). Posted Jun 22, 2003 22:52 UTC (Sun) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] I agree with Jon here. Yelling at erat who may only be a little quick to forgive (not necessarily a bad trait) will not make SCO either go away or do something stupid.If you'd like to taunt SCO, then something stronger than "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smells of elderberries!" may be in store. Here are a few suggestions, based on the presumption that many of those in power in The SCO Group and The Canopy Group are members of the LDS church.
Taunting SCO (and not erat). Posted Jun 23, 2003 11:22 UTC (Mon) by pate (guest, #10) [Link] You know, this is getting pretty ugly. I'm LDS, and I'm definitely *not* pro SCO. I was offended by their signage, but I'm also quite offended by your recommendations.I think we can safely leave religion, communism, and nazism out of the whole debate and work to expose SCO's suit for what it is, a thinly veiled attempt to line the wallets of those at the top of SCO at the expense of the Linux community. -pate
This is sad... Posted Jun 23, 2003 3:14 UTC (Mon) by SlashDread (guest, #12311) [Link] With all due respect, your not European.I take much offence in the anti France bashing that is so common in the States. We dont run around calling Americans captitalists fascists nazi pigs, haha jk, are we? /Dread
Re: This is sad... Posted Jun 22, 2003 17:20 UTC (Sun) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] The whole lawsuit has been anything but fun. I don't think that SCO isin any position to be making jokes about this.
Some of them are funny in a weak kind of way, but at least one is very, very sick )-: Posted Jun 22, 2003 18:47 UTC (Sun) by leonbrooks (guest, #1494) [Link] The Who's down with Other People's Intellectual Property sign is major chutzpah. The IP which TSG (not the original SCO, The SCO Group) is laying claim to is code written by IBM which belongs to IBM according to the terms of the AT&T agreement.For an example of such code, turn to SMP. TSG's own SMP implementation sucks so badly that all of their licencees, past and present, have written and are using their own implementation instead. TSG is claiming ownership of those implementations. The short story is that the IP in contention does not belong to TSG even if it was originally developed (by IBM) for use with SCO UNIX or UnixWare sources and is not a part of the BSD codebase or otherwise public domain or copyright (e.g. GPL) by others. To put it in the same terms that TSG are applying to IBM and Linux TSG are using barratry to steal the rights to code that they did not write and do not own. It's worse than that. If you read what Chris Sontag said in the BYTE article, you will see that TSG are trying to leverage their barratry to steal ownership of every significant OS in the world. You know how annoying parking meters are? In asserting that everything else descends at least in principle from their UNIX codebase, TSG are trying to install a meter on every CPU in the world, starting with the USA. They are trying to encumber everybody with a licence agreement, but instead of using Microsoft's attrition method, they're aiming for one fell swoop. To show you how brazen this is, consider the same scenario in another industry. The Canopy Group buys Ford, then claims that since every production-line car in the world was derived in one way or another from Henry Ford's system. They start with General Motors but have an eye on an unexpectedly thriving kit-car industry. Is the analogy clear, and good enough? While TSG employees might be fine and friendly to deal with, TSG management is trying to stage one of the biggest ripoffs in software history. If they succeed, it will undermine the livelihood implied in tens of thousands of Linux-related job in the USA and greatly slow Linux deployment worldwide. They even have the gall to hint about taxing the BSDs! If they fail, TSG and these guys' jobs, pensions etc will be a scorched memory. This (to say nothing of much other lying and prevarication) makes those posters a lot less funny than you hope. Ha, ha, and all, but meanwhile they're trying to throw the IT world over a barrel. And suddenly Boise' actions make sick sense. In the unlikely event of him winning this one, he'll be first in line for the next one, and the next, and the next... and if TSG's licence works out to something of the order of $100 a CPU a year, their income will easily exceed Microsoft's. Are you reading me, Bill?
M$ is listening Posted Jun 22, 2003 20:21 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] "Does he read you ?"In the event of all this "broad derivative work" nosense case could make "jurisprudence"(i hope i have that well wrighten ), i belive that are not only OSes that will be implied, but also all applications that are wrighten for those OSes. Imagine M$ collecting fees for every application in the world that was, are and will be wrighten for Windows and Longhorn,... will TSG income easly exceed Microsoft's ?... no kidding?! I'm not a lawyer, but i belive that the software patents interpretation coud be severely impacted to,... but watch Bill be worried,.. nothing that large millions(just scraps) for the "aggravated" and for the law makers couldnt handled. "whats more important is the owner of the original (inicial) OS, even if large portions of it ACTUALLY have others property".
M$ is listening Posted Jun 23, 2003 9:25 UTC (Mon) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] Once again, let me remind everyone that IBM tried the same trick once; thie is why compiled and linked executables ueed to be called "phases" in the IBM-360 world.
M$ is listening Posted Jun 23, 2003 9:41 UTC (Mon) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] Quite right!But remember how everyboby got their mouths open astounded, to ear the last remedy for Microsoft... I guess what IBM missed back then was a Bush administration (read DOJ), that allow the defendands wright their own remedies.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 22, 2003 15:31 UTC (Sun) by cthulhu (guest, #4776) [Link] This is a really stupid move by the Provo LUG. Two quips come to mind:1) Never get in a pissing contest with a skunk, 2) Don't argue with a fool; other may not be able to tell the difference. Yeah, I think the SCO posters are pretty insulting too, but why give them the opportunity to try to justify their actions? Really dumb.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 2:09 UTC (Mon) by janpla (guest, #11093) [Link] 'Give Communism a Try'Yeah, why not. As far as I can see Capitlism hasn't given us much other than greed, egotism and a filthy environment. Come on now, call me 'bleeding heart socialist'; you know you want to.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 7:49 UTC (Mon) by gthaker (guest, #3728) [Link] I simply can not believe SCO can get away with claiming ownership over so much. It is always possible to find 12 people on a jury with limited understanding of software to agree with their claims.The best analogy I can use is this. Consider Yellostone National Park - a great treasure that is collectively owned and enjoyed by all citizens. Now a dispute arises about ownership over 1 or 2 acres someplace in an obscure corner of the park. The person who claims to own the 1-2 acres would say "I claim no one can use the rest of the Yellowstone Park either and by extension since Yellowstone was the first national park I claim ownership over all national parks, the very concept of a park, ... "
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 8:14 UTC (Mon) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link] The GNU/Linux community is less about Communism than it is about anarchy. Anyway, this "economic value" of Unix should diminish over time as does any idea that was once new, but has become common. SCO's argument is less about property rights and more about property claims. This ambition of theirs to lasso in all the multitasking operating systems in the world for being derivatives of Unix has all the appearance of a get-rich-quick scheme based on some legal technicality.
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 13:24 UTC (Mon) by proski (subscriber, #104) [Link] The whole concept of "intellectual property" is to keep old ideas just as valuable as they used to be, like e.g. real estate. Except that the "intellectual property" is not taxable.
Intellectual Property Keeping Concept Valuable Posted Jun 23, 2003 19:11 UTC (Mon) by wweber (guest, #11678) [Link] If no one else can implement one of those four or five functions through independent efforts without the dark cloud of Canopy SCudding over the horizon to claim it, (as Selden tried to make Ford pay him for permission to make cars), the concept of intellectual property has been corrupted, and may have to give way to the public good. Unless, of course, Canopy/SCO really does have a vision for a multitasking operating system to end all multitasking operating systems but needs for it to be worth the effort. Trying to hang onto a 30 year old idea in that manner is more like intellectual appropriation. It's like that board game Monopoly: "you landed on my (concept, my idea, my invention), now you have to pay me rent!" The popularity of multitasking operating systems proves their value well enough. Oh, BTW, Mr McBride and Herr Sonntag, have you made your royalty payments to Al Gore for your use of TCP/IP? Remember, he is the inventor of the Internet! ;->
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 10:00 UTC (Mon) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link] As far as I can see Capitlism hasn't given us much other than greed, egotism and a filthy environment.Capitalism is one of those words that has been overloaded so often that it's nearly lost it's meaning, sometimes even when taken in context. What you call "capitalism" may range in meaning anywhere from "free market" to "human nature" to "the great satan" to someone else. Anyway, I've no idea what this has to do with SCO and/or Linux. There's a lot of stuff posted that seemingly has little to do with Linux, but I'm never shy about jumping in. You can call me "off-topic Ted" if you want. :-)
Provo Linux users protest at SCO Posted Jun 23, 2003 8:19 UTC (Mon) by kfrazier (guest, #12325) [Link] Just some observations...1. Let's keep religion out of this, please. If this lawsuit is in State or Federal Court it will most likely be in Salt Lake City, Utah which means that there is a high probability of the majority of the jury pool being LDS. Mormon bashing is not going to help the cause. 2. I found the SCO signs insulting, but I also found the PLUG "SCO to Hell" signs insulting also. 3. After reading the article from the link to the Deseret News, I thought we need to stay away from the "free software" issue. The general public, at least this is what I have found, doesn't understand the concept of "free software". There was a quote in the Deseret News article something to the effect of "I helped develop the software, why should I have to pay for it?" To most people this would be like an automobile designer saying "I helped design the car, why should I have to buy one?" Just my quick thoughts.
Linux Marketing Posted Jun 23, 2003 11:16 UTC (Mon) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link] But you cant avoid misinformed interpretations, ever...FS/OSS inherently has a marketing position that makes very dificult, and unwise, to "BIG ADVERTIZING CAMPAIGS" be sucessful,... because it's lead is "pure" technical, as will always should, an not marketing as in M$. That's its best caracteristic, but also its best default, in the point of view of Masses Adoption. I belive the best caracteristic will prevail, because when real informed pro-active people can influence masses, they can only influence to more informed pro-active people(will take longer), and those people will not be detered by any misinformed interpretation. THERE'S PLENTY OF VALUE IN THE COMMOM (but whit copyright authors) POOL OF CODE,... BELIVE ME! Example: you help design a car, and there's no price tag on all the parts you need, but i can still charge you a fortune to mount it the way you like it... of course you can do it yourself, but you have to know how all the way, and have the necessary tools (buy a factory)... SO PRICE TAG IS MISLEADING.
Judge Kimball, copyrights, and appeals. Posted Jun 23, 2003 11:06 UTC (Mon) by StevenCole (guest, #3068) [Link] According to this Salt Lake Tribune story, Judge Dale A. Kimball (who is the Judge assigned to the SCO vs IBM lawsuit), seems to have an interesting viewpoint of copyrights under certain circumstances:The lawsuit was tossed out in January 2001, when U.S. District Judge Dale A. Kimball ruled that stories based on historical events cannot be copyrighted. But late Friday[4/19/02], the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver overturned Kimball's ruling. "It is clear Hughes copied much of the plot line for Wally Thomas," the main character in the five-volume series, wrote Senior Circuit Judge Wade Brorby in the decision. "In some instances, the copying goes beyond close paraphrasing and reproduces Jacobsen's words exactly."The point being that no matter what happens in Judge Kimball's courtroom, this will likely be appealed. So things will not likely be settled anytime soon.
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