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Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Posted Feb 6, 2010 14:32 UTC (Sat) by drag (subscriber, #31333)
In reply to: Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica) by pabs
Parent article: Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

The OS X Window handling is better then most anything in Linux, in terms of usability.

If you looked you'd notice that Photoshop in OS X does not use a single master window like it does in Windows. The whole single window mode in the Windows version is mostly just to emulate how window handling is done in Mac OS.

Here is a video taken out of a Photoshop tutorial for illustrative purposes:
http://dr-photoshop.com/zfile/tutorials/wallpaper/oswallpaper.mov

This works out pretty well for OS X because of Apple's use of virtual windows and it's composited desktop.

Each application has it's windows naturally grouped together on it's own virtual desktop. Each desktop is then layered on top of one another. Whenever you click on one portion of a application all the application windows come forward. Also this has the advantage that the application's menus are always located in the same place at the top of the screen. And as you change applications the context changes with it.

This is very intuitive and it is natural enough that most people are able to use OS X without even noticing how the window management works.

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Linux is kinda cursed with the worst and best of both worlds. Mostly worst when it comes to usability.

Linux's desktops tend to get all the windows mixed together like happens with Microsoft Windows. That is if you have 8 browser windows open and you have 8 terminals open then you have to flip through 16 windows all mixed in together to find the one you want.

And when you combine that with the fact that you have 4 desktops and it's very difficult to know what window is on what desktop.. people that tend to use applications with multiple windows or have large numbers of windows can easily get lost and waste a lot of productivity hunting around.

It gets pretty bad sometimes. If your in the middle of a task and your desktop disrupts what your doing then it can take up to 15 minutes to regain your concentration.

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The best way to work around this for people that have lots of applications is to simply get into a habit of ordering their windows the same way every time they use it. Using the virtual desktops in a habitual manner so they simply keep everything memorized.

Of course, that is also why people freak out on Gnome for dropping the session management stuff. They spend a great deal of time setting everything up, but lose it each time they log out.

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The multi-windowed Gimp tries to compensate for this by using 'Window Hinting'. That way it can tell the Window manager that all toolbar and dialog windows are just utility windows for the main window holding your image.

Metacity honors that (as well as a few others) so that when you click on one of Gimp's windows then it brings all of them forward and they are managed as a single unit.

When you alt-tab, for example, your not shuffling through the toolbar, 3-4 dialog windows, and your image window... as well as the half a dozen or so other windows that you happen to have open. You just see one Gimp window and you select all of them at one time.

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Gnome-shell tries to do some rudimentary window grouping and tries to improve the 'intuitiveness' of having multiple virtual desktop. It's a improvement over the status quo, but not up to the same level of usability or naturalness of OS X's window management.

There remains a need to have the ability to application group windows together and have them exist as a unified object.

Think about web browser tabs, for example. They are really just a crutch for poor window management on the part of the OS.

If you are able to group like application windows as a single unit then it would not only make it easier to find and select the window your looking for, but it would make non-conventional window managers like tiling window managers or tab-based window managers much more practical. You could easily do something like select 'tab terminal windows' together and have them all automatically resize and work together. Even in a conventional window manager this would be much easier.

Right now I can manually tile terminals together, but it's tedious and is something that should be handled naturally by the window manager. I've used advanced tiling window managers and have used ratpoison long before that, but those demand a lot of scripting to get things done and tend to be too inflexible for what I want.

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Basically if the Linux desktop did a good job managing application windows as a single entity rather then getting everything all mixed up in one another then the whole Gimp thing would be mute. People simply would not really notice how different it is to manage Gimp while using it versus Krita or Inkscape.

Also you would have people not using tabs in their browsers and would not use tabs in their terminals. They would tend to not understand why tabbing is so nice for certain types of applications.

It would really solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.


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Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Posted Feb 6, 2010 17:20 UTC (Sat) by MattPerry (guest, #46341) [Link]

> The OS X Window handling is better then most anything in Linux, in terms
> of usability.

Hey drag, I hate to nitpick, but are you aware that you always use "then" when you should be using "than" in your posts? Those words have different meanings so it can make your posts confusing to read.

Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Posted Feb 9, 2010 15:12 UTC (Tue) by wookey (subscriber, #5501) [Link]

And (whilst we're on the subject) your-> you're.

Worthwhile post despite the grammar issues, I hasten to add.

Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Posted Feb 12, 2010 7:00 UTC (Fri) by phip (subscriber, #1715) [Link]

And while we're in grammar-police mode, it's 'moot', not 'mute'.

For some reason I've been seeing this one a lot lately.

Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy (ars technica)

Posted Feb 7, 2010 16:42 UTC (Sun) by efexis (guest, #26355) [Link]

"The xxx is better then most anything in yyy"

Abuse of word "better". It's obviously more suited to you and your usage pattern; to me and mine it's just horrible, the most counter intuitive and limiting interface I've ever come across, and I've used a fair few (and I don't just mean different versions of windows or even different WMs under Linux) that all have their fair share of differences from each other, I do not have a problem learning and adapting to new/different things by any means.

There's a whole world out here full of different people who think in ways so different they could be from different planets. Hell the difference between just my own usage patterns are massive, for example from when using a seperate keyboard and mouse where there's a greater division of function between hands, to when I'm using a combined keyboard+trackpad interface such as my laptop where switching a finger/thumb between keyboard and trackpad can be done in the sub 100ms range and can see me moving the mouse cursor with left or right hand depending on where the other hand just needed to be or needs to be next. If on top of those differences I was also a whole different person as well, I'd imagine the differences in use would be even greater, to the extent that I really can't see how anyone could make any credible claims about one being better than the others.

For example: multiple windows & toolbars all popping up when you switch into an application, as you have described, is something I find hyper-annoying. Most applications at that kind of level will generally allow docking of toolbars/etc. If I have a toolbar or something undocked it's often because I don't want its actions to be tied to what I do with the main window. It really wouldn't be a freak occurance for me to be working in an app's main window while have something else open that obscures the view of a toolbar or property sheet for an amount of time. Should I have to remove a toolbar when I want to work in a window of an app while still being able to see something else on the screen that the toolbar would otherwise block? No, that would be annoying, I'd much prefer to be able to control whether it's docked and thus follows the main window or not.

Bare in mind when things are subjective and not facts is basically what I'm saying. Incidentally, if you're interested and have a machine you can run it on, give Scalable Fabric a look. I very much like the ideas there; windows get smaller as you drag them past the desktop border towards the edge of the screen; you can throw windows together to form groups which you can then restore/minimise as a whole group; being able to bump other windows out of the way slightly without having to put down what you're currently dragging. Unfortunately it's just a research piece and is not really stable enough to switch to using/relying on, but some interesting ideas on doing things differently nonetheless.

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