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WanklageWanklagePosted Jan 4, 2010 22:16 UTC (Mon) by ncm (subscriber, #165)Parent article: A summary of 2009 Perl 6 activity It appears that Perl may be turning into a wanklage. A wanklage is most typically a language for which there is more enthusiasm in discussions of how it may be implemented than in what new programs and libraries can be written in it. (Well-known wanklages include Lisp and Haskell.) Enthusiasts of wanklages are frequently more interested in how cool various features are than in how useful they may be in writing real programs. Currying is one such feature. Another mark of a wanklage is long discussions of how to overcome its built-in impediments to solving simple problems. Use "wanklage" in a sentence today.
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Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 0:14 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]
Rather amusing, then, that the first implementation of Perl 6 was written in
Haskell.
Also, I've found currying quite useful in some Javascript I've written.
I actually don't think Perl 5 has achieved wanklage status. There are lots
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 0:32 UTC (Tue) by chromatic (guest, #26207) [Link] Rather amusing, then, that the first implementation of Perl 6 was written in Haskell. The first had a compiler written in Perl 5, targeting Parrot. I don't remember if Pugs was the second or third.
JavaScript != Lisp Posted Jan 6, 2010 5:03 UTC (Wed) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link]
Many times have I heard the notion that JavaScript is similar to Lisp and even Scheme, and frankly couldn't disagree more. By that notion any language with lambdas and closures is Lisp, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
JavaScript lacks macros, tail recursion, immutable values, a sane syntax or sane scoping rules. My favorite example of how much JavaScript is not like Scheme is when trying to use a loop variable in a closure.
Most importantly, JavaScript doesn't really encourage "Lisp-y" programming and thinking.
JavaScript != Lisp Posted Jan 6, 2010 5:54 UTC (Wed) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]
It's slow, at least.
JavaScript != Lisp Posted Jan 6, 2010 6:05 UTC (Wed) by mikov (subscriber, #33179) [Link]
Agreed.
Well, I didn't say Lisp was practical, easy, or even usable. JavaScript definitely is the more practical language, but if anything that strengthens my point that it is not like Lisp :-)
Some people might say that JavaScript is Lisp done right, but they are crazy. There is not a single thing "right" in JavaScript :-)
Now, Scheme ... It is beautiful and elegant and I love it... If only one could actually use it to develop software, it would be great.
JavaScript != Lisp Posted Jan 6, 2010 6:19 UTC (Wed) by jordanb (guest, #45668) [Link]
When I saw how Common List handles equality.. it reminded me of a lot of the design decisions in Javascript.
JavaScript != Lisp Posted Jan 6, 2010 12:24 UTC (Wed) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]
I said that Javascript is *surprisingly similar* to Lisp, not that it *is*
Lisp. Most people would expect that the two languages are worlds apart, and they're much more similar than, for example, Java and Javascript. (Ignoring syntax, obviously.)
Check out the book "Javascript: The Good Parts", as well as anything on the
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 0:44 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] Perl 6 is a wanklage. Perl 5 is not, and neither is Lisp. (I have a soft spot for Lisp because one of my earliest programming jobs was writing Common Lisp code, and I quite enjoyed it. Yes, I produced an actual useful application!)
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 0:54 UTC (Tue) by jordanb (guest, #45668) [Link]
Lisp *became* a wanklang[1] when the AI winter killed off most practical uses of the language and people like Erik Naggum took over comp.lang.lisp.
[1] I love your term, ncm, but the spelling 'wanklange' doesn't make any sense.
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 3:33 UTC (Tue) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link] Well, you know, first spell it right. Then say it aloud: "Wanklage, language; wanklage, language". You'll get it.By the way, people who look back fondly on Lisp (or LISP) are really only nostalgic for their own youth. They often feel the same way about pot, cheap pizza, beater cars, folly -- and AI. We left them behind for good reasons (except youth and folly; one was taken, the other we kept).
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 14:06 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] By the way, people who look back fondly on Lisp (or LISP) are really only nostalgic for their own youth. I resent that! Some of us use GNU Emacs, you know!
Wanklage Posted Jan 5, 2010 21:08 UTC (Tue) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]
I do, too -- in viper-mode.
Wanklage Posted Jan 6, 2010 20:52 UTC (Wed) by jordanb (guest, #45668) [Link]
> Well, you know, first spell it right. Then say it aloud: "Wanklage, language; wanklage, language". You'll get it.
I suspect you perhaps have to have a British accent to get that to work..
Still, it's a great term, regardless of spelling.
Wanklage Posted Jan 6, 2010 22:13 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
I've got a British accent and I don't get it. (Also, unless I misremember
ncm grew up in Hawaii or somewhere like that. British accent, not so much.)
Wanklage Posted Jan 15, 2010 18:58 UTC (Fri) by rwmj (subscriber, #5474) [Link]
I use currying all the time when programming. It's tremendously useful to be able to add and drop
parameters to make code shorter.
Wanklage Posted Jan 15, 2010 19:39 UTC (Fri) by b7j0c (subscriber, #27559) [Link]
It appears that LWN may be turning into a digg
Wanklage Posted Jan 15, 2010 23:21 UTC (Fri) by chorny (guest, #62988) [Link] See Perl Myths 200909 to get real data about Perl usage. There are many new project every month. Just go to CPAN. Notable examples are Moose which implements one of the best OOP and MooseX::Declare to ease writing Moose classes.
Wanklage Posted Jan 16, 2010 4:26 UTC (Sat) by jordanb (guest, #45668) [Link]
Chromatic, if you're going to sock puppet, you should spend a little more effort on the username.
Wanklage Posted Jan 16, 2010 5:38 UTC (Sat) by mstrout (guest, #62992) [Link] Chorny's CPAN directory seems a vast amount of effort just to create a sock puppet. Though I must admit I've never yet seen him and chromatic in the same room.
Wanklage Posted Jan 16, 2010 8:40 UTC (Sat) by chromatic (guest, #26207) [Link]
I appreciate the publicity (I suppose), but I'm too busy making things like Perl actually happen to be anyone in addition to myself.
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