Posted Nov 30, 2009 23:56 UTC (Mon) by Felix_the_Mac (guest, #32242)
Parent article: Between Fedora 12 and 13
Linux 2.6.18 (the RHEL5 kernel) was released on 2006-09-16. (Arrr!)
RHEL5 was released on 2007-03-14.
There has been mounting speculation that RHEL6 would be beased upon F10, F11, F12 ....
But, as a example of doubt, Jonathan is suggesting here that RHEL6 may be based on F12 whereas Wikipedia (bastion of reliable information) says:
"Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6, will be based on Fedora 14, supposed to arrive in the third quarter of 2011, no codename has been finalized"
My questions:
1. With the rapid pace of Kernel development how long can Red Hat feasibly stick with 2.6.18?
2. From a marketing perspective how long can they stick with 2.6.18?
3. Why are they not officially telling us their product plan?
4. How come nobody is leaking?
5. Is there something in recent kernels that is stopping them from using more recent releases? e.g. CFS?
6. And while we're at it ... whatever happened to the Red Hat desktop?
Posted Dec 1, 2009 0:31 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
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Actually Red Hat currently supports a 2.4 series kernel in RHEL 3, and will do so into the middle of next year.
It is possible that Red Hat thinks supporting four releases at once was too much, and has decided, but not yet announced, that it will release RHEL less frequently, but with long phase 1 (new hardware and features) support. This might be a good choice because as the product matures, Microsoft have seen that customers become more and more resistant to upgrading. Rightly or wrongly they think it's an added cost (not a software cost, both Red Hat and Microsoft offer products where you don't pay for the specific version you use - but a training and testing cost) for no value.
So whereas you might have found customers would start using RHEL 4 on some production systems six months after it came out, and were using RHEL 5 within a year, Red Hat may have data that suggests if RHEL 6 was available today, it wouldn't drive any sales until 2011 anyway. So why spend the extra money on engineering? Wait until customers are begging for the new features, right?
Fedora offers them an advantage here. If Microsoft has some trouble that leaves them without even a beta of the new Windows Server for an extra year, they've got no way to put (server) features out there for customers to see. With Fedora, Red Hat gets an opportunity to show the way every six months, which must be good for customer confidence, while at the same time the rapid turnover of Fedora releases minimises ongoing engineering support overhead & makes it worthless for the roles where you might plausibly sell an RHEL license.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 1, 2009 10:17 UTC (Tue) by miguelzinho (subscriber, #40535)
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Thank you very much! Finally some one who understands that Fedora is a perpetual beta for Red Hat products.
Fedora a beta for RHEL?
Posted Dec 1, 2009 19:19 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659)
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Fedora is considered the "upstream" of RHEL... and so far as any "upstream" is a perpetual beta of a "downstream", ok... call it whatever you want. I guess that makes Ubuntu a perpetual beta of Debain? No? Why not?
In any event, there are a large number of differences between Fedora and RHEL. Take the biggest difference is the number of packages. If you want to call Fedora a beta for RHEL, call 1/10th of it a beta for RHEL because the other 9/10ths aren't even part of RHEL. I'm just guessing with those percentages... I haven't actually run the exact package numbers but you get the point.
Fedora a beta for RHEL?
Posted Dec 1, 2009 23:56 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
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~ 2500 in RHEL vs ~ 16000 binary packages in Fedora.
Fedora a beta for RHEL?
Posted Dec 3, 2009 5:52 UTC (Thu) by qg6te2 (guest, #52587)
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While these extra packages are not officially part of RHEL, they considerably increase the number of packages directly usable on RHEL.
Fedora a beta for RHEL?
Posted Dec 3, 2009 0:21 UTC (Thu) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322)
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No, Debian *unstable* is a perpetual beta of Ubuntu.
Kinda.
Fedora a beta for RHEL?
Posted Dec 4, 2009 19:32 UTC (Fri) by misiu_mp (guest, #41936)
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No, debian unstable is perpetual beta of debian stable.
Ubuntu is just perpetual beta.
(evil me)
RHEL6
Posted Dec 3, 2009 20:52 UTC (Thu) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
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We're not that rare.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 3, 2009 20:59 UTC (Thu) by sbergman27 (guest, #10767)
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"""
It is possible that Red Hat thinks supporting four releases at once was too much, and has
decided, but not yet announced, that it will release RHEL less frequently,
"""
The proper way to have made that change would have been to make it effective for RHEL7.
They had already promised 18-24 month releases to RHEL5 customers. And, in fact, are still
claiming an 18-24 month release cycle in their current sales literature. Even as they blithely
disregard it:
Posted Dec 1, 2009 3:44 UTC (Tue) by qg6te2 (guest, #52587)
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If one has the a bit of time to wade through Red Hat's Bugzilla, it can be noticed that RH folks are busy making a RHEL 6 beta.
A reasonable guesstimate is that RHEL 6 will be a hybrid between F-12 and F-13. That is, F-12 will be the base system, with some newer packages from F-13. A beta will be released roughly around the same time as F-13, partly in order to take make use of community feedback (i.e. bug reports) on F-13.
It's likely that either the beta or details of the final product will be announced at RH's summit in 2010.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 1, 2009 8:58 UTC (Tue) by lkundrak (subscriber, #43452)
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Ever bothered to look at RHEL 5 (5.4) kernel? You'll get an impression, it's not quite 2.6.18 anymore.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 1, 2009 9:45 UTC (Tue) by Felix_the_Mac (guest, #32242)
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Yes, I appreciate that, it was embedded within my question:
"With the rapid pace of Kernel development how long can Red Hat feasibly stick with 2.6.18?"
RHEL6
Posted Dec 1, 2009 16:22 UTC (Tue) by ewan (subscriber, #5533)
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They can keep calling the RHEL kernel 2.6.18 indefinitely.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 19, 2009 11:00 UTC (Sat) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263)
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Yeah. It's so much not 2.6.18 that most things that are designed to compile with a genuine 2.6.18 will outright fail.
RHEL6
Posted Dec 1, 2009 13:51 UTC (Tue) by ceplm (guest, #41334)
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> And while we're at it ... whatever happened to the Red Hat desktop?
While I cannot comment on other ones, I am not sure what you mean here ... there is a commercially available desktop product http://www.redhat.com/rhel/desktop/ and of course Fedora servers pretty well as a desktop OS. I would be very sorry if it doesn't, because that's what I am employed to develop ;).
RHEL-based kernels?
Posted Dec 1, 2009 19:26 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659)
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LWN has run a few articles regarding "Enterprise" kernels that address your questions. You seem to be overlooking the fact that Red Hat releases an updated RHEL-5 version about ever 6 months with a new 2.6.18 branch... and in doing so they always back-port drivers, some features, and security fixes. In the last few updates they have also seen fit to re-base some desktop apps on newer versions... or upgrade an app if the upstream has discontinued the base they were using (take Firefox for example in RHEL4).
RHEL's 2.6.18 is really 2.6.18 but with a significant amount of code from newer releases mixed in.
So to answer your question... how long can they continue to use it? That is like asking how long people can live in a house? As long as that house is continuously remodelled to meet the needs of the residents, it can go on until the planet gets destroyed.
RHEL6 - Fedora speculation
Posted Jan 30, 2010 22:45 UTC (Sat) by jroysdon (guest, #63273)
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I've done a bit of my own speculation as to RHEL6 to Fedora versioning. I tend to agree with another poster here, and based on the evidence I site, that RHEL6 will be based on F12 and/or a hybrid of F12 w/F13 refreshes.
RHEL6
Posted Apr 13, 2010 5:08 UTC (Tue) by antus (guest, #65245)
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Keeping kernel 2.6.18 as a base (read the same API) does have its advantages in the some commercial places. One of the suckiest thing about Fedora for me personally is running binary nvidia drivers which break often when new kernels come out.
By contrast, we maintain a commercial telephony IVR based on RHEL3. Its still in production, still works, and the company that owns it has no interest to update, with the exception of security updates. Due to redhat maintaining the same kernel release I was able to install yum on this machine, "yum update" over 600 packages (including the kernel), reboot and have the machine come straight back up, and start taking phone calls even without rebuilding the proprietry drivers for the IVR hardware.
A lot of purists will hate that, but in an unbiased world where you just want it to work (enterprise), it can be a major plus.
Even so we are running RHEL 3, 4 and 5 systems now and Im looking forward to RHEL6 for new installs. The old ones wont be updated so long as they still serve their purpose.