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Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waitingFedora 12 released with over 550 updates waitingPosted Nov 17, 2009 16:52 UTC (Tue) by kragil (subscriber, #34373)Parent article: Fedora 12 released
Congrats.
Nice release, but don't tell people with dial up that they can use Fedora because of Delta-RPM. They just can not. (Debian stable with only security updates and general updates via updated DVDs is a much better choice for our moms, dads or friends with dial up.)
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Fedora 12 released with over 200 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 17:25 UTC (Tue) by nevyn (subscriber, #33129) [Link] % yum repolist --enablerepo=updates-testing fedora Fedora 12 - x86_64 enabled: 19,122 updates Fedora 12 - x86_64 - Updates enabled: 271 updates-testing Fedora 12 - x86_64 - Test Updates enabled: 843 ...that's for x86_64, i386 is smaller (206 atm.) ... and no sane person should need all of those. You can also yum-plugin-security, to get security only updates. Saying that you might be better off with RHEL/CentOS if you want "minimum" updates.
Fedora 12 released with hundreds of updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 18:03 UTC (Tue) by kragil (subscriber, #34373) [Link]
The number is not mine, it is Thorsten Leemhuis' (kernel-log author and Fedora contributor)
I know about yum-plugin-security. Problem is that with Fedora you need all the updates you can get (except those that break stuff, you don't need those, but they are well disguised.)
Fedora 12 released with hundreds of updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 18:05 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
The number is still misleading. You don't need that many updates.
Fedora 12 released with hundreds of updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 18:14 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
If there were one or two mirror admins for mirrors in the main eu or us mirrorlist who be willing to do a little access log data mining... we could probably get a pretty good histogram look at how many of the update packages users are typically pulling over. We could probably get a read on the percentage of users who are just pulling security updates too.
-jef
Fedora 12 released with over 200 updates waiting Posted Nov 22, 2009 13:27 UTC (Sun) by rwmj (subscriber, #5474) [Link] Fedora 12 introduced a new process to prevent updates to critical path packages. So (if the process worked) none of those updates should be for key packages that could break anything important for you. Rich.
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 18:59 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]
So it isn't the distro for users on dialup. Whoopie. Targetting the dialup market kinda seems strange in the first place.
For Fedora 11, I think the update count is in the 16,000-ish range.
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 19:32 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
It all depends on your definition of "update." The update count is really misleading.. because some updates are new packages added to the collection after the Fedora release. Fedora contributors are continually adding new things and those new things show up as updates.
I'll take a very close look for Fedora 10 32bit system to make the point...
repoquery --repoid=fedora -q -a --show-dupes --queryformat="%{name}"|sort
The 4 package difference are from packages that come in i386 and i686 flavors: kernel kernel-devel glibc and openssl.
Now f10 updates as they exist today.
repoquery --repoid=updates -q -a --show-dupes --queryformat="%{name}"|sort -u
This is a snapshot of what is available today on an active F10 mirror. It does not count expired updates which are no longer available on a typical public mirror.
Now how many ibinary packages names exist in updates that do not exist in fedora 10 release tree?
That's over 1/3 of the F10 updates repository as it exists today are NEW packages that did not exist in any form at the time of F10 release and could not be installed on freshly installed systems from release day media.
-jef
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 20:28 UTC (Tue) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link]
I was aware that new packages added later (not in Everything) are placed in updates. That is misleading. If you don't like that, change it.
The fact still remains that there are several thousand updates. Does the average user have that many packages installed where a significant percentage of total updates would apply to them, probably not.
On my system, and I don't have any devel stuff installed, it is fairly common to have a few hundred megabytes worth of updates a month. That's not dialup friendly.
I haven't used a dialup modem since 1998 and I'd be curious how many modems you can buy today would even work with Linux to begin with.
Fedora has a lot of updates. That is a fact. That's something I like about Fedora... and one of the reasons I use it for desktop stuff. I maintain my own local mirror but I don't necessarily recommend other folks do that. I maintain a personal Fedora remix as well as build OpenVZ OS Templates... so I do use it quite a bit.
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 20:38 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
We don't have a clear view how the package churn translates into client update churn in any real sense. As I said before, I could probably generate a much clearer picture of typical update usage patterns if a couple of mirror admins from would voluntarily work with me so I could data mine their activity logs to produce an aggregate look at the update repository utilization.
-jef
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 21:32 UTC (Tue) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link]
As an additional follow up... on my f10 system .. i have 1814 unique binary packagenames installed... 185 are -devel subpackages.
The intersection between the 1815 packages I have installed and the 7173 available updates is 823.
775 out of 823 are updates to packages available at release time
So taking this system as typical... and I'm always loath to actually do that. The thought of myself as a representative user of any technology is disturbing on many levels. But for the moment....assuming my system is typical...
I've got ~11.5% of available updates installed by package count (not by package size). 99.5% of my installed updates are true updates in the sense that that a version of the package was available at F10 release.
I probably go back and do the same sort of analysis on my F11 system tonight and do a delta rpm bandwidth savings analysis. To get a better sense of what really is typical I'll need to datamine mirror activity logs.
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 17, 2009 22:26 UTC (Tue) by nevyn (subscriber, #33129) [Link]
Jeff, get the yum-plugin-security update from F12 updates-testing, and use "yum list-updateinfo new" ... no "comm" required :).
If you get the very latest yum then you can also pass --releasever=10 (should hit rawhide/F13 RSN, if you don't like running from git :).
Dialup distro Posted Nov 18, 2009 7:02 UTC (Wed) by Cato (subscriber, #7643) [Link]
For people who need well supported dialup, Puppy 4.3 is one of the few distros that has this: http://puppylinux.com/download/release-4.3.htm
It's great for small systems, and there's now experimental support for building Puppy using packages from other distros such as Ubuntu: http://lwn.net/Articles/354928/
Fedora 12 released with over 550 updates waiting Posted Nov 20, 2009 7:01 UTC (Fri) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]
Debian users with dialup or restrictive bandwidth quotas should checkout debdelta, which does almost the same thing as deltarpm.
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