RFC: Updating the LKML bug reporting/updating framework [LWN.net]

From:		Robert Bradbury <robert.bradbury-AT-gmail.com>
To:		LKML <linux-kernel-AT-vger.kernel.org>
Subject:		RFC: Updating the LKML bug reporting/updating framework
Date:		Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:59:42 -0400
Archive-link:		Article, Thread

I do not know much in these areas having learned my craft by digging
UNIX source code listings out of wastebaskets at Harvard (freshman
weren't really supposed to have access to the UNIX source code in
1974).  And I hardly ever used the Oracle bug reporting system in the
mid-1980s.  But I have used the Mozilla, Gnome and Gentoo public bug
reporting and tracking systems to a fair extent in recent years and
they seem to work fairly effectively.

They have good search engines.  They attach patches to bug reports
which fix the stated problems.  They allow for discussion, assessment,
voting and presumably for the powers in charge the keeping of
statistics regarding the state of the software.

Now, the LKML seems to to be a throwback almost to 1971 when the first
email messages were sent between a couple of PDP-10s.  It has patches
that I have no interest in, discussions I have no interest in and were
it not for Gmail's search function it would be generally useless (very
high Noise-to-Signal ratio).  Now maybe I do not understand the Linux
development process.  Maybe this is a "Wizard of Oz" case and there is
a hidden bug reporting system hidden behind the curtain -- but in
spite of my best efforts I cannot locate it.

Why in this day and age (ignoring historical inertia) has Linux failed
to adopt a robust (modern) bug reporting system?
Can this be fixed?  Or is Linux really a case of a "proprietary
software" system pretending to be open [1]?

Robert Bradbury

1. If a software system is so complex that its quirks and pitfalls
cannot easily be located and avoided (witness the ondemand scheduler
problem on Pentium IV's message I recently filed) then is it not
*effectively* open source.  I am qualified to read hardware manuals, I
am qualified to rewrite C code (having written code generators for
several C compilers) but the LKML is like the windmill and I feel like
Don Quixote tilting back and forth in front of it.  One could even
argue that the lack of an open bug reporting system (and "current
state" online reports) effectively makes Linux a non-open-source
system.  Should not Linux be the one of the first systems to make all
knowledge completely available?  Or is it doomed to be replaced by
systems which might provide such capabilities (Android perhaps???)

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TOPS-10

Posted Oct 29, 2009 2:09 UTC (Thu) by brianomahoney (subscriber, #6206) [Link]

As one who also spent a few years fixing bugs in TOPS-10, I would council, "If you dont like LKML and the Bug Tracking Process ... BUILD a better mousetrap", some people like H. Peter Anvin and Junio Hamano have done huge things to help the community, If you feel an itch, and think you can do better please try to help; your efforts will be appreciated, especially for new developers. The community is now large, so whatever area interests you you can probably find a helper.

But, at the end of the day, use the source Luke.

TOPS-10

Posted Oct 29, 2009 11:37 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Robert's complaint came across to me as 'I couldn't find the bugtracker therefore the LKML is a dead list and Linux is dying'.

I must say that of all dead lists I've ever seen, the LKML is the least dead. There can't be many lists out there with higher volume...

TOPS-10

Posted Oct 29, 2009 14:32 UTC (Thu) by arafel (subscriber, #18557) [Link]

Yes, but I think their point is that mere traffic volume doesn't mean the list is functioning *well*.

Part of their problem appears to be the fact there are emails which they're not interested in, and that's kind of unavoidable with any mailing list... they may end up disappointed regardless.

But yes, I was a little surprised to read that when there is a kernel bugtracker out there. I've never used it (for a variety of reasons), but I know it exists...

TOPS-10

Posted Oct 30, 2009 9:56 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

There's a bugtracker, there's patchworks to find pristine copies of emailed patches for things that arrived when you weren't subscribed or that have expired at your end, there's git trees aplenty... one thing Linux is not short of is ways to contact people and communication paths for getting comments and code out.