By Jake Edge
October 16, 2009
A few weeks back, we looked
at the newly announced CodePlex Foundation. At the time, there were a
few questions about the foundation and its plans. We asked Sam Ramji,
interim president of the foundation—and, previously, Microsoft's
senior director of platform strategy—to fill in some of the gaps.
Below are his answers to our questions, ranging from the foundation's
governance and plans, to his thoughts on Microsoft's open source strategy
going forward, as well as information about his new company and its
relationship to open source software.
LWN: I'd like to start by discussing the CodePlex Foundation, can
you give us your high-level overview of the foundation and its mission? Is
it meant to serve the open source community, software companies, or both?
Both. The CodePlex Foundation's mission is to
enable the exchange of code and understanding among software companies and
open source communities. We are organized to serve both the open source
community and software companies, which is why we chose to operate as an
independent, non-profit foundation. As LWN and others have noted,
other foundations exist – GNOME, Mozilla, Apache, Linux and Eclipse, for
example – which share similar goals, although those foundations have a
specific technology focus. We saw the need for an organization that more
broadly addressed the process of participating in open source
communities. In my travels in open source I've observed that corporate
software developers don't often participate as much as one might expect in
the open source projects that they make use of. We are working to provide
an answer to the question: as a software company or as a corporate software
developer, how can I contribute code, or a project, to an open source
project or foundation?
LWN: As interim president, you, the board of directors, and advisory
board are tasked with finding an executive director and permanent members
for both boards. What time frame do you have for putting that all
together? Will the adoption of a charter for the foundation be done in a
similar time frame, or is that something that will be done by the new
boards once they are in place? Will you be staying on as president after
that or will that role fall to the new executive director?
We set some tough deadlines. In the first 100 days, we will remake the
board of directors, appoint a new president, and hire a full-time executive
director. I expect the new board members to come equally from software
companies and the open source community, which will shift the center of
influence away from Microsoft. Incidentally, if you look at the current
board, three of us are not employed by Microsoft, so I would argue that
this balance is already shifting. Additionally, the board of advisors
represents a cross-industry and cross-community team of experts; we have
people ranging from backgrounds in MySQL to VA Linux to open source .NET
projects.
We will continue to recruit new members for the board of advisors. The
board's intent is to have the advisory board more accurately represent
collaboration between software companies and open source communities. When
the permanent boards are seated, they will take on the task of formulating
the Foundation's charter, so look for that document to take shape in the
180-day timeframe.
For the first 100 days I will serve as interim President, but my path is
back to the private sector: I am VP Strategy for Sonoa Systems, a Silicon
Valley cloud infrastructure company. After my term as Foundation President
ends, I will continue to work with the Foundation, probably as a member of
the board of advisors. I'm not a candidate for the Executive Director
role. Just as a point of education – the roles of President (which is a
board of directors role) and Executive Director (a full-time paid staff
role) are quite different. You have exceptions to this model like Jim
Zemlin, who is both an operational manager and a spokesperson/leader, but
in general for non-profits the ED is a very hands-on operational person,
while the President provides high-level direction and spokesmanship. .
LWN: There has been criticism of the make up of the initial
boards, notably from
Andy Updegrove (and follow-up),
because they are Microsoft dominated. His contention that the appearance,
at least, is that this is a Microsoft-focused foundation with little or no
room for outside voices, and more importantly, the ability to act
independently of Microsoft's wishes. Does that seem accurate to you? If
not, why? What gives it the ability to act independently?
I really appreciate Andy's comments. He spent a lot of time analyzing the
Foundation's structure and governance, and his suggestions are guiding the
board as we look for a permanent president and executive director.
I understand that the initial makeup of the boards would lead observers to
the conclusion that the Foundation is dominated by Microsoft, but the
100-day target we set for revamping the boards should reassure observers
that there is plenty of room for other points of view. The more companies
that participate, and the more points of view represented, the better.
Microsoft's founding donation gave us the ability to operate
independently. That might not seem obvious, but with the sponsorship,
Microsoft gave the Foundation the ability to open a bank account, hire
employees, revisit the mission, reconsider governance and formulate a work
plan to move forward. It set the ball rolling, and now the Foundation is on
a distinct – and separate – path.
In order to bring in more sponsors, we're clear that there will need to be
balance and independence not just in our actions but in our governance, and
therefore in the makeup of the board of directors. We're working through
Andy's suggestions and those of others with experience in this area. You
will see some changes by the end of the 100-day period.
LWN: What are the criteria for finding new members for the board of
directors and advisory board? Is one of the goals of the search process to
increase the diversity (i.e. fewer Microsoft employees and/or voices from
outside of the Microsoft sphere of influence) of those boards? If so, how
might that be accomplished, or, if not, why?
We are looking for board members who are independent thinkers who
understand open source, know the value of open source in a commercial
context, and have a proven ability to bring the two together. You can see
some good examples of these on the current boards. Those parameters mean
we are searching a diverse pool of candidates. For example, right now I
think we need a board member with open source legal expertise as well as
one who has led use of open source within corporate environments beyond the
software industry. We're looking at people within open source communities
and also at people in commercial software companies that are outside of
Microsoft's sphere of influence. We expect that Microsoft will still be
represented – the company is the founding sponsor – but there will be many
voices. Also, the interim board is committed to the long-term success of
the Foundation, and knows that we'll be judged by what we do, not just by
what we say we'll do.
LWN: Will the foundation be sponsoring particular projects,
something like what the Apache Foundation does? What criteria will be used
to decide which projects make sense to sponsor? What benefits would a
project gain by becoming a part of the CodePlex Foundation?
We're still working through the process for
accepting projects, and will be talking about our progress on our website
and at my
blog and Mark Stone's
blog. October will be the
month where we're able to post a public draft of our project acceptance and
governance process as well as go into reviewing projects that are submitted
to us.
LWN: Up until recently, you were the open source "point man" for
Microsoft. Over your tenure there, large strides were clearly made, what
are your thoughts about Microsoft's open source initiatives (separate from
the foundation) going forward? Where do you see the company headed in
terms of open source participation?
[PULL QUOTE:
In a 91,000 person company
that is hiring engineers constantly, it's impossible to hire engineers
under 30 years old who have no open source experience; I think of it as a
generational shift that's inescapable. Their collective views create
pressure within the company to find ways to adopt and work with open
source.
END QUOTE]
Advocacy for open source has been growing
within Microsoft for years. It was my job to get that initiative going
strong, and in that I was successful. We socialized the idea that open
source is complementary to Microsoft's core business. The contribution of
the Linux device drivers at OSCON was one good proof point; that work is
complementary to Hyper-V and the virtualization business. What I saw as I
left was that the range of advocates within the company had grown, both
through our collective successes with work on PHP,
OpenPegasus, and
MPICH2, and
through the natural influx of industry talent. In a 91,000 person company
that is hiring engineers constantly, it's impossible to hire engineers
under 30 years old who have no open source experience; I think of it as a
generational shift that's inescapable. Their collective views create
pressure within the company to find ways to adopt and work with open
source. The same is true for more experienced developers and business
leaders who have come to Microsoft from companies who make extensive use of
open source – for example, Lee Nackman from IBM who shepherded the
Eclipse project is now a Corporate Vice President at Microsoft. So I
expect to see more participation and contribution, focused clearly on areas
that deliver long-term, sustainable growth in core businesses like
operating systems and databases.
LWN: Many Linux developers are concerned about Microsoft's patent
attack against TomTom and its attempted sale of 22 patents to
non-practicing companies. What would you say to those developers to
convince them that Microsoft's motives are benign and that cooperating with
Microsoft (either through the foundation or in other ways) is a safe and
appropriate thing to do?
There is a real issue and a red herring in that question. On the red
herring, it's my understanding that those 22 patents were offered to both
Red Hat and IBM individually before they were sold to Allied Securities
Trust, a non-profit that counts both Red Hat and IBM among its members.
You have to wonder why they would turn down the option to buy the patents,
subsequently accept AST's membership benefit of gaining a license to those
patents, and then raise issues in the public about the risks posed by both
the patents and AST and stepping in to buy them through OIN. It strikes me
as disingenuous at best.
On the real issue, which is patent litigation, I think that Microsoft is
not very different than other large software companies in their behavior on
patents – for example IBM has a longer history of patent litigation, and
similar issues with the management of their patent portfolio. The
structural problem that I see in this industry is a lot like the cold war
and the related nuclear proliferation: large companies feel that they need
them for protection from each other, so they take actions to ensure that
their arsenal is strong, including testing them in court or other bodies.
These actions end up causing a lot of fear for other people and companies,
and tend to inhibit innovation in the industry. Personally I'd like to see
a structural solution such as legislative reform or even a revision of the
application of patents to software with a focus on copyright instead, as it
used to be in the 70s and 80s. Until this happens it's not clear to me
that any of the large software companies are going to change their
behavior.
Finally, working with the CodePlex Foundation is quite separate from
working with Microsoft. What we are building is a safe harbor for software
companies and open source communities to collaborate in. One of the ways
we plan to do this is by requiring software companies to grant a patent
license for any code they contribute to the Foundation, and then by
relicensing those patents at no cost to all downstream users and
developers, including their use in derivative works. I think that for the
projects and companies that participate in CodePlex Foundation projects,
this will prove to be a valuable innovation that lets more developers
participate in open source.
LWN: What can you tell us about your new job? It is said to be at a
"cloud computing" startup, is that right? Is that company using (or
planning to use) open source technologies? If so, how?
I'm responsible for strategy at
Sonoa.
It's a cloud computing infrastructure company focused on the analysis,
control, and security of cloud services. We've all seen a ton of expansion
of cloud services – as an example, a year ago eBay stated that 60% of their
traffic was coming through the cloud rather than the web. That was 6
billion API calls per month as of 2008 that went directly to their backend
rather than their website. As the "invisible web" of programmatic
connections to business services expands, and those connections become more
critical to the businesses providing and subscribing to them, there's value
in being able to ensure availability and performance, logging and auditing,
and dynamic modification to how they're being offered to different
customers or partners. Sonoa's products do just that; we have a free
product called APIgee.com, which runs in Amazon's EC2 environment and lets
any cloud service provider manage their uptime, rate limits on subscribers,
and get visibility into their current subscribers. That's built on
ServiceNet, which is our paid product that runs in the cloud (EC2) and
on-premise as a software or hardware appliance. ServiceNet has a lot more
features accessible than APIgee currently – it's effectively a high-scale,
low-latency routing platform for cloud services.
We use a number of open source technologies, starting with Linux, which is
our base platform. While much of the product is in C, we're using Java,
and more specifically Apache technologies in the server. We use Xen in
packaging our EC2 AMI and some of our customer environments. We also have
a design studio for cloud policies which is an Eclipse-based authoring and
editing environment.
I think there's a lot more that Sonoa can do in this area – both in giving
back to the projects that we're benefiting from directly in the product,
and in the projects that we're benefiting from as a company. Here's an
example: before someone needs our products, they need to have cloud
services, whether those are REST APIs, SOAP APIs, or RSS feeds. They need
to build them, and they need to deploy them. We don't have any offerings
in those areas – we're not an IDE or application server provider. It's
only logical that we should support projects like Apache Axis2 and PHP REST
frameworks. The open source strategy at Sonoa is a blank slate, which is
one of the things that makes it exciting to me.
LWN: Is there anything else you would like to tell our readers?
It's been a privilege to work with a number of industry leaders in the
role that I served in at Microsoft. The Samba Team taught me a great deal
and I appreciated their optimism in being willing to work with me after
prior negative experiences with Microsoft, and our success together enabled
us to move a lot of things forward, including our relationship with the
Linux Foundation. In general those who have taken the time to understand
the work that my team did on interoperability with Linux have appreciated
the work and had good advice. I feel that there was much more I would like
to have done, but that work will fall to my successors and to the company
as a whole. I am glad to carry on putting my beliefs into practice at the
CodePlex Foundation – that we can build a better software industry by
getting software companies consistently contributing to open source
projects – but I will miss guiding Microsoft's progress on Linux and Open
Source.
I would say this to each of your readers: it's through the outreach and
education that you have to offer that will narrow the rifts in the
industry. I think every systems administrator would prefer to do less work
in making multiple operating systems work in a single environment, and I
know that every developer would like to have their work have more impact by
running on more platforms and more computers. So if you have advice for
the people making decisions and enacting strategy, give it to them
constructively and with patience, because meaningful change takes time.
[ We would like to thank Sam for taking the time to answer our questions. ]
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