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KDE's Project SilkKDE's Project SilkPosted Sep 22, 2009 13:21 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796)In reply to: KDE's Project Silk by kragil Parent article: KDE's Project Silk
I don't think you will ever be forced to use it. Who knows? I'm already forced to run a completely extraneous MySQL server for no discernible benefit. It's as if the KDE-PIM developers have never heard of SQLite.
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KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 22, 2009 13:44 UTC (Tue) by sebas (subscriber, #51660) [Link]
Akonadi (which is what you're probably referring to) *currently* requires
MySQL, its storage is abstracted so you could plug in a different storage engine, however. The requirement is as simple as "right now mysql is the only backend".
During the beginning of Akonadi development, the idea was to actually use
It seems that sqlite has improved in those areas, and work on an sqlite
All that has nothing to do with forcing people to use certain webservices,
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 22, 2009 20:56 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] The problem is really when people like the KDE-PIM developers have their own notion of what is good for everybody and then proceed to cram whatever that is down everyone's throat. I'm a big fan of »Heuer's Law«: »Any feature that cannot be turned off is a bug.« I don't *need* an SQL server to store a few hundred addresses. My machine is running an SQL server but I need that for other things (such as software development), and I certainly don't want my desktop environment to mess with it. Neither do I want the overhead of another MySQL-size daemon just for a bunch of PIM data (my machine isn't *that* big). Akonadi might be a great idea if it was optional, or if there was a backend that catered to people who need only very basic functionality, cheaply. I'm generally happy with KDE but this tendency towards a fixation on infrastructure for infrastructure's sake makes me look for alternatives.
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 22, 2009 22:15 UTC (Tue) by sebas (subscriber, #51660) [Link]
Akonadi is not about MySQL, or a daemon of its size. Akonadi is about
providing a common synchronization and access layer for PIM data.
Even if you only store three emails in it, it still makes sense to make
As I said, an sqlite backend is under way. That would be the one catering
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 23, 2009 5:33 UTC (Wed) by dkite (guest, #4577) [Link]
I think you have it backwards. Akonadi has had very limited usage within
kde, gradually increasing as apps are ported to use it. In other words, the ideas were implemented using tools that worked at the time. Proof of concept type thing. As it becomes more useful, more integrated, the availability of suitable backend libraries hopefully improves at the same time. But the necessity of getting something out there for people to bang on forces bad choices.
Really, all this episode shows is that for serious desktop work, developers
Derek
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 23, 2009 10:38 UTC (Wed) by segedunum (guest, #60948) [Link]
Ahhhhh. The whining refrain from someone complaining about 'bloat' on his machine. Quite frankly, most users want their desktops and applications to actually do things and they don't care about you. Nobody is interested in whether *you* don't think you need a SQL server. If you're that bothered then go and write something yourself. Some light reading:
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 23, 2009 11:02 UTC (Wed) by nye (guest, #51576) [Link]
And people wonder why MS has near total desktop domination.
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 23, 2009 11:21 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] Well, maybe it's just me, but if I have to have bloat then I want that bloat to actually *work*. This is something that Akonadi so far has failed to deliver for me -- it insists on launching its MySQL server and trying to import stuff from our LDAP server, but then it basically quits and says »I'm broken, I can't do anything«. Of course once it has noticed that it is, in fact, useless it would be much too much to expect it to clean up after itself (say, by killing the MySQL server again). Incidentally, the help link on the dialog in question leads to a 404 error. I don't mind debugging stuff but if people actually seem to go actively out of their way to make it difficult then I have better things to do with my time. I'm cool with bloat that actually delivers something worthwhile on top of what is already there. What I am less enthusiastic about is developers who appear to spend all their time pushing the envelope and don't seem to care about the day-to-day stuff. They're busy working on a car that will fly (and it actually does, in the wind channel in the lab) but the fact that the steering wheel falls off the moment the car is being driven out of the driveway into the road is below their attention threshold. (After all, flying is much more important, and the rest is just trivial stuff that the users can fix if they are »bothered«.) I'm looking forward to the day when Kontact will actually be able to maintain a stable connection to an IMAP server that is running on the same machine, with no gratuitous hangs. This has never worked quite right as far as I am concerned -- it's OK most of the time but once or twice a day Kmail just hangs until either the IMAP server is restarted or a timeout happens. (In point of fact the IMAP server is only necessary in the first place because Kmail doesn't handle Maildirs the way it ought to, according to the author of the offlineimap utility, which doesn't appear to be a problem with other MUAs.) *Maybe* Akonadi will help there but I'm not holding my breath. I'm also looking forward to the day that the message editor in Kmail will once more handle Ctrl-K the way it is supposed to, which is apparently broken in KDE 4.x. There is more stuff in the KDE 4.x Kmail that used to work in 3.5 but no longer does -- but hey, the developers are working on an INTEGRATED FRAMEWORK so who cares about little annoyances like these? If the users are »that bothered« with them they can go and fix them themselves, because the developers are too important to worry about them. If a user dares voice an opinion that something the exalted developers have decided may not, in fact, be the greatest idea on Earth then they're »whining«. Right?
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 23, 2009 14:15 UTC (Wed) by boudewijn (subscriber, #14185) [Link]
Come off your high horse and get real.
Do you really think the developers think that way? They aren't in it for
It's no doubt fun to rant like this, but you're simply wrong about the
KDE's Project Silk Posted Sep 24, 2009 8:16 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] Whatever. But I suppose that even those »paying customers« would like their Ctrl-Ks to work correctly ...
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